Monday, May 20, 2013

Gothitelle/Accelgor - The New BDIF Contender Rises!


Hello everyone!


Norwegian Nationals produced very interesting results. Some of you may ask, how is Norway relevant to


Accelgor is back and it's better than ever!
anything, but for those who doubt the quality of Norwegian players, I must remind that they have done exceptionally well in the ECC every year and for example the Norwegian Nationals winning deck last year, ended up winning the World Championships!

Anyways, enough about Norway and more about the deck I’m going to introduce you today. The deck won Norwegian Nationals in Masters and in fact I have been testing the deck as well for 2 months now, but didn’t really want to make an article of it before it was played in a tournament. A lot of players have probably already come up with this, because the combo has been around forever, but one card made all the difference in the Plasma Freeze. For some reason it hasn’t been discussed that much on the internet (except from that one article on tcgwithats), but I’m sure that is about to change. The reason for this is probably because everyone who came up with it wanted to keep it as a secret. However, now the secret is out and it’s time for some hardcore analysis of the deck.

Let’s start with the list, which combines my own testing experience and the Norwegian Nationals-winning list.








Pokémon:
4x Gothita
3x Gothitelle (Emerging Powers)
3x Shelmet
3x Accelgor (Dark Explorers)
2x Mew EX
1x Duskull
1x Dusknoir (Boundaries Crossed)
2x Munna
2x Musharna
=21

Trainer:

4x N
4x Skyla
2x Professor Juniper
2x Colress
3x Tropical Beach
1x Dowsing Machine
3x Ultra Ball
2x Pokemon Communication
3x Level Ball
3x Float Stone
4x Rare Candy
1x Super Rod
1x Town Map
1x Tool Scrapper
1x Pokémon Catcher
=35


Energy:
4x Double Colorless Energy
=4



Strategy



Remember Accelgor last season with Vileplume and Chandelure? Well, this time the deck isn’t that much different. Gothitelle takes the place of Vileplume as the Item locking card, Dusknoir takes the place of the Chandelure as the damage manipulator and Float Stone is the easier, less resource-wasting Darkrai EX. Not to mention that Mew EX takes the place of the Mew Prime. Otherwise the strategy is just the same – Paralyze and poison your opponent’s active Pokémon and prevent them from retreating with the Item lock that Gothitelle provides.

First, you try to set up Gothitelle. After you have the Trainer lock down, you will slow down your opponent a lot, which gives time to set up your remaining Pokémon. After all, the dream set up of this deck requires 2 Stage2 Pokémon and 2 Stage1 Pokémon. Something that wouldn’t be possible without the Gothitelle’s Item lock, but which becomes manageable, thanks to Gothitelle.

After you are able to recycle the Mew EX with the help of Accelgors attack and have Dusknoir on the bench, you just keep moving the damage away from your opponent’s active Pokémon, while they are paralyzed and destroy their benched Pokémon while they helplessly can do nothing, because you keep on Paralyzing them and moving the damage to the benched Pokémon. In the end, even though the deck is very similar to the old Accelgor, the roots for this deck were invented back in the days, when there was this random deck called Spiritomb/Gliscor LV.X/Palkia LV.X/Cresselia LV.X. It did exactly the same as this deck, but of course it was a lot more volatile and a lot more inconsistent. The deck I now analyze is the result of a huge increase in the power creep.



Card Explanations




Gothitelle (Black&White)

Gothitelle is the most important card of the deck. It prevents your opponent using Switches when paralyzed and it gives you time to set up. Before doing anything else with this deck you want to set up Gothitelle first. After you have the Item lock, you will have more time to set up everything else. You want to plat 4-4 Gothitelle, because of this. Unless you play 4-4, you will have very hard time getting it T2.

Accelgor (Dark Explorers)

All you need to do is to set up one Accelgor and let it sit on the bench. Mew EX does the attacking while copying Accelgor’s attack in most cases, so you don’t need that many of them. Also, it’s safe from the Catchers thanks to Gothitelle, so the less you play them, the less you have space for more stuff. You don’t really want to play down a Shelmet before you have the Gothitelle in play.  

Mew EX

Mew EX is the main attacker of the deck. Since you can’t search Mew EX with Level Ball, the decks needs a lot of Pokémon Communications, Ultra Balls AND Mew EXs. In the end, an argument can be done for 4th Mew EX, but I guess that’s a bit overboard. However, you need Mew EX every turn, so you can’t really underestimate the importance of Pokémon search and Mew EX in this deck.

Dusknoir (Boundaries Crossed)

Dusknoir is essential part of the complete lockdown, but it isn’t necessary before the late game. That’s one of the reasons, you can afford playing 1-1 line of it. You can go 6-1 down on prizes as long as you then get the Dusknoir lock and start spreading the damage like nobody’s business. As soon as Dusknoir was released, everyone saw potential in, but this is the first deck that can really abuse the great Ability of Dusknoir.

The main point of Dusknoir is to keep the active Paralyzed Pokémon alive as long as you are able to get the 6 prizes off your opponent’s benched Pokémon with the damage you are able to spread with it. Dusknoir fulfills the perfect combo and gives the deck a kind of control that Pokémon TCG has never seen – a complete control of the game!



Munna – Musharna


Munna is super good here, because it can make your opponent’s active Pokémon asleep in the early turns. Gothitelle combined to Asleep is very good in the early game and can give your opponent a big headache. It also gives you time to set up. Musharna is very good in this deck in the late game. Once you have been able to thin your deck with Juniper and Ultra Balls, you should have only 7-10 cards in your deck and with Musharna you are able to keep the combo going, because you can get DCE and Mew EX every turn. It’s VERY good in this deck, but the deck can survive without it if you can’t find space for it.


N – Professor Juniper

The two best supporters of the game. There is no deck that doesn’t want to play these. Even though this deck is an exceptionally good deck, it doesn’t make an exception here.

Skyla – Colress - Tropical Beach - Computer Search

Draw power, draw power and some more draw power. You have a huge arsenal of stage1 and stage2 Pokémon you want to set up, so you need every single draw card you can fit into the deck. If you miss even one supporter / Tropical Beach in the early game, you are done for. This deck needs a huge amount of draw supporters, because it can be outspeeded very easily especially by Plasma and Big Basics. I think the deck would be even better with even more supporters than my list has!

Ultra Ball - Pokemon Communication - Level Ball

The Pokémon search is very similar to supporters. You need to set up a huge variety of attackers, so you need a lot of Pokémon searching cards. Ultra Ball is still the best even though you need every single card in your deck. The reason for this is that you want to deck your thin out for the late game, so you can get continuous Mew EXs and DCEs in the late game. Sometimes Ultra Ball is very painful, because you have to discard precious cards like Pokémon Cathers, but in the end it can search for any Pokémon, which makes it still the best Ball out there.

Pokémon Communication is one of those cards that most people forgot that it existed. The reason for this is the very low amounts of Pokémon in the current decks. Pokémon Communication only works if you have 20 or more Pokémon in your deck and this deck is the only deck in the format, which may have 20+ Pokémon in the list. Pokémon Communication can search for anything and you don’t have to discard anything. It’s especially good before Juniper, because at the same time, you can search for a Pokémon you need and save a precious Pokémon back to your deck instead of discarding it with Juniper.

Float Stone

In the past, the deck needed Darkrai EX, which required bench space and additional energy attachment. Thanks to Float Stone, you don’t have to sacrifice bench space OR an additional energy attachment in order to give Gothitelle a free retreat. As I said previously, the combo has been out there for all the time, but Float Stone is the one card that made it all possible. Free retreat for Gothitelle gives the deck the much needed mobility and space it has been longing for a long time.  


Rare Candy

You have 2 different stage2 Pokémon and you want the other one of them in T2. 4 Rare Candies should be a no-brainer.


Super Rod

As the deck has so many Pokémon and at the same time so many discarding cards, sometimes you may end up discarding cards that you need to get back with Super Rod. However, in most games Super Rod is quite useless as with most decks, but you can’t really play without Super Rod, because that way you would be way too vulnerable for Junipers and Ultra Balls. An argument can be made for even 2 Super Rods, because the deck discards such a huge amount of Pokémon.

Town Map

The deck is filled with thin Pokémon lines in order to fit all the necessary cards in the deck and believe me, this deck can and will lose to prizes without Town Map. Heck, even with Town Map, you occasionally have just horrendous prizes that will screw up the whole game. In many decks, Town Map is just a theorymonically good card, but in this deck it’s a necessity.

Tool Scrapper

Tool Scrapper? Even though the deck runs a Trainer lock? Well, the explanation is quite simple, if Garbodor is able to attach Tools to Trubbish before you get Gothitelle in play (which happens pretty much in every game), you need some way to get rid of the Tool or otherwise they will run over you, because they will have an access to Switches. However, with only one Tool Scrapper you are able to turn the game around and lock them for good. Against Garbodor, keeping up the Item lock is more important than against any other deck due to Garbotoxic.

Pokémon Catcher

Last year, Pokémon Catcher was only a tech, because Vileplume stopped your own Item as well, but nonetheless I played it in my Accelgor at The Top Cut Invitational. It’s a very good card and now that you are able to use it even when your opponent’s Items won’t work, it gives you an edge in every match-up. In most match-ups you just want to save the Catcher for Keldeo EX, which would otherwise cause you a lot of headache with its Ability, but if your opponent doesn’t play Keldeo EX, Catcher is more or less useless. However, as Keldeo EXs will probably get a lot more popular due to the success of this deck, Catcher will play an essential part in any games this deck plays in the future.



Energy

You only attach energy to two Pokémon – Mew EX and in emergency situations to Accelgor. Thanks to Float Stone, you don’t need anything else, but only DCEs. It’s simple, but yet very brilliant way of building a deck. 4 DCEs is enough and this way the deck can actually have enough cards, which help it to set up.



What makes the deck SO good?


1. The deck has extremely good Plasma match-up

Plasma is probably one of this deck’s strongest match ups AS LONG AS they don’t play multiple Keldeo EXs in their decks. If the double-Keldeo EX/Kyurem Plasma deck will become standard, this deck will have trouble, but at least against the current Plasma builds the match-up is highly favorable for Accelgor. The match-ups favorability could be seen from the finals of the Norwegian Nationals, where the Accelgor won the game even though Plasma got a T1 Lugia EX! I wonder how many other decks can survive that…

2. Klinklang was still around

No matter how much I bash Klinklang, it still is around! And in great numbers. That’s why I have decided to take a completely another route the next few weeks and will even write positive words about it to my upcoming Sixprizes Underground article! Anyways, there are two reason why Klinklang is a very easy match-up for this deck.

1) If you set up Gothitelle before they get the Plasma Klinklang, they will have very hard time set upping the Plasma Klinklang. Some decks don’t even play Klanks, so they can scoop as soon as you get Gothitelle first! 

2) Accelgor still hits even if they get the Plasma Klinklang to play. They can get one Plasma Klinklang to play, you Catcher it, kill it with Accelgor and second Klinklang will never see daylight, so you can just take care rest of the game with Mew EXs.

The match-up is so ridiculously auto-winnish for Gothitelle that it’s not even funny anymore. If you want to make it even more an autowin, add 1-1 line of Accelgor and laugh to all the Klinklangs that ever existed. Norwegian Nationals had 2 Klinklangs in top4, so Accelgor pretty much had a walk in the part in a Klinklang heavy metagame.

3. The tournament was played in Best-of-Three format and top games were 75 minutes long

This deck will almost always be behind in prizes and thus had an advantage in the tournament format that the Norwegian Nationals were held. The best-of-three games in the Swiss rounds were played in 50 minutes, so the deck had all the time in the world. It’s also good to notice that the difference of 60 minutes top cut compared to 75 minutes is huge. In fact, one year, I would have missed my Nationals win if the tournament was 60 minutes in the top cut, but thankfully it was 75 minutes that year. Accelgor has the more advantage, the longer the game time is.

4. Surprise factor

Never underestimate the power of the surprise factor. I spoke with the other Finalist of the Norwegian Nationals and he said that he had never played a game against the deck, so he made easy mistakes of the surprise factor. And that’s what often happens, even for the very best of the game. I have had some personal experience on that matter in the Worlds 2008 when I played Glaceon. However, now that the surprise is factor is gone (especially after this article), the deck just has to cope with its assets.

5. The lack of Keldeo EX & Float Stone

There are two different ways to organize the mobility of your deck. The normal way of using Switches, Float Stones and Escape Ropes and the new way of Keldeo EX & Float Stone. As many people lived under the impression that Trainer locks didn’t exist, I’m pretty sure everyone just played Switches, because it’s often the better way to go. However, now that Gothitelle shook up the whole metagame dramatically, I’m sure we will see more Keldeo EX and fewer Switches. In the end, 2 Keldeo EX cause huge trouble for Accelgor, if played in e.g. Plasma deck together with Kyurem.




Conclusion



The deck was around in Japan in the current format, but was overpowered by multiple Plasmas and the lack of Tropical Beaches among Japanese players. However, when we are talking about unlimited budget, it suddenly goes to win a National Championships of a country that has a very high skill-level.  Japan then Norway and I expect that the deck will take the whole Europe and rest of the world by storm. It has an excellent match-up against the former BDIF (Plasma) and is extremely difficult to counter.

What I love about the deck the most is that it’s a stage2 deck! I have been bashing Klinklang as long as it has been around and probably will be doing so as long as it’s rotated, because it’s so easy to outplay, but this deck is different. You control the game and your opponent can’t really outplay you.

I believe we have only seen the beginning of the rise of this deck and I’m sure that in two weeks it will establish its place very high in the tier1. We are living very exciting times and the metagame is more interesting than for a long long time. And this is only the beginning, international Nationals and Battle Roads are only starting. One can only imagine how much the metagame will change from the current one until we reach the World Championships! Can’t wait for my own Nationals and Worlds!

Feel free to comment or ask anything related to the deck as I have quite a lot of experience with it already.

Thanks for reading!


139 comments:

  1. Plasma Decks can easily fit 2 Keldeo and 4 Float Stone if need be. I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a single donk in the tournament vs this new "BDIF". Please, I'll take all the players in Texas over the players in Norway any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If your skill level was that high, then Accelgor would never had seen top 4.
    Darkrai decks also play 1-2 Keldeo also, which means Goth is a sitting duck.
    I'm sorry, but just because a few people in a country with the population of Houston didn't know how to handle this deck, does not make it the BDIF.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I totally agree xD

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    3. If you can fit 2 Keldeo and 2 Float Stone, you are going to have many problems:
      - You will have a lot of dead cards in other matchups.
      - Gothitelle can be setup before you draw your Float Stone+Keldeo combination. Also, you don't want to prioritize setting up a Keldeo + Float Stone on your first turn.
      - Gothitelle/Accelgor plays Tool Scrapper. The player can use one turn to Skyla for it and Catcher-stall. Your Keldeo won't help you anymore.

      I have no experience with players from Houston, and I would guess that you have no experience with players from Norway. That is not a legitimate argument.
      How do you exactly play against Gothitelle/Accelgor, could you tell me that? An obvious counter is to only have one attacker you set up with and attack, but after he get the lock up, you can't really do anything. You can easily go down to 1 prize before he/she get it, but you are probably gonna lose as fast as the deck is set up.
      I don't think there is a way to play smart or skillful against this deck, but rather a dumb way to play. A smart player don't do misplays, that's all.
      Darkrai is an easy matchup, please don't say otherwise. You have to draw into your Keldeos under trainer-lock. Darkrai can not OHKO Gothitelle, but Absol can with a Dark Claw and a filled-up opponents bench. Gothitelle don't have that until mid-game, which probably is too late for you to start KOing. Also, Keldeo is probably going to be catchered out once it hit the field.

      I think you should reconsider your thoughts on the deck.

      Delete
    4. have you tried playing agaisnt it ? even with keldeo it will just catcher it and paralyze
      and if not just spread dmg and egt the dusknoir up and ko shit this deck was not just good late game it had early lock with gothitelle tho the paralyze came later on
      so getting pokemons isnt that easy and playin down tools isn ot allowed when gothitelle is active... so meh uck float stones
      try playing agaisnt it and see it or yourself :) a player that knows how to use this deck will steamroll you

      Delete
    5. I think you need to check your claim of Houston having the same population as Norway.

      Also, Houston is a shit hole of a city. And I'm American, so I know.

      Delete
    6. I bet you're feeling pretty retarded now, eh? Gothitelle is destroying US Nats. Lmfao.

      Delete
  2. Garbador/Big Basics is still a deck to be reckoned with, which totally shuts down Goth.
    Accelgor is not the BDIF. Stop the false hype now!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Garbodor shuts off goth? Lol, you're such a joke

      Delete
    2. srly, you only need to play one tool scrapper and then u have auto win against garbodor...

      Delete
    3. Tool Scrapper off Garbador's tool, and Gothitelle's power prevent's Garbador's power from doing anything.

      Delete
    4. So if your tool scrapper is prized you take the auto loss?

      Delete
    5. Play more than 1 tool scrapper?

      Delete
    6. Town map to take it out.

      Delete
    7. You have to take prizes first on top of getting town map into your hand.

      Delete
    8. this article almost assumes Mewtwo and Landorus have gone extinct. both of these guys and kyurem will take at least three prizes before Gothitelle gets a full setup. 2 stage 2s and multiple stage 1s are a pain to setup even worse at the same time. mewtwo with one DCE takes care of little goths ad with two takes down gothitelle. Landorus takes quick prizes with laser or at least sets up 2 kos on turn 2. gothitelle is reliant on draw and its tropical beaches will be i constant war with virbank and sky arrow bridge. gothitelle only has 4 DCE to work with and will not truly be able to deck and cover consistently until the last 1/3 of the game. getting the mew+DCE turn after turn is a lot to ask for early to mid-game in a deck that will average at least 30+ cards at that stage. If they cant get Dusknoir out their strategy falls apart.

      Delete
  3. Esa... I am disappoint.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. disappointed.......

      Delete
    2. you must be new here

      Delete
  4. It seems like someone has just invested 300$ to a plasma deck and doesn´t want people to play something so cheap!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Please tell me more about a deck with 2 Tropical Beaches is cheap.

      Delete
    2. We have to remember that in Europe your tropical beaches dont have to be english so they are cheaper.

      Delete
  5. Blastoise typically plays 3 Keldeo and they OHKO Gothitelle with just 4 energy. What do you do against it, scoop?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. and what would you do if gothitelle sets up first? scoop?

      Delete
    2. LOL.
      Mirror matches must be funny. Whoever sets up Goth first wins.

      Delete
    3. @ poxstep
      If Gothitelle ever gets big, people will start playing Wartortle.
      Also, it's really not that hard to attach 4 energy manually to a Keldeo, especially since you play more than one while the list above only plays one Catcher.

      Delete
    4. If they set up 2 blastoises quickly, then yeah. Otherwise you can completely halt this deck (with no Wartortle) if you have good set-up and spare goths.

      Delete
    5. It only helps some. Accelgor players can't reliably attack every turn with the Accelgor, so more often than not, they'll be doing 60 to 80 damage (Deck and Cover from Mew with Poison and maybe Virbank). If a Blastoise deck gets three Keldeo into play, with or without Blastoise, they can just Rush In over and over until they build up a big enough Keldeo. And if they run a tech Pokémon Center (and some Blastoise decks have been doing that as an alternative to a third Beach), they can buy a couple more turns to set up Keldeo. I think Blastoise lists can easily adapt to make the matchup with this deck more favorable.

      Also, Plasma still gives this deck trouble. Even if Plasma doesn't get the donk, they can put in a huge amount of early-game pressure and overrun Accelgor's setup. Gothitelle/Accelgor is certainly a viable deck, but I think it's far from a near-autowin against Plasma.

      Delete
  6. - Countered by Keldeo techs
    - Won't beat Garbodor or Blastoise decks
    - Vulnerable to donks
    - Is less effective in the more common format of 30+3 Swiss and 60 min top cuts

    I'm not going to disrespect Norweigian players because there's no reason to. They've proved there's a high standard there even if the player base is small. But this is a very early Nats and TDK lists aren't close to being perfected yet.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Stop talking shit if you haven't even tried the deck.
      Keldeo =/= Autowin
      Wrecks Garbodor, beats blastoise if they get out goth first
      Mew EX isn't donkable, usually has 2 basics in opening hand.

      Delete
    2. It is incredibly difficult to donk this deck since (this list) plays 20 pokemon

      Delete
    3. The list plays 12 Basics.

      Chances of starting lone Basic? 38%.

      'Incredibly difficult'?

      Delete
    4. take a look at the TDK decks played there... they are all pretty solid
      No-one playes the retarded keldeo float stone

      Delete
    5. yes they do...its helps when u want to stream kyurems and get out of hypnotoxic laser.

      Delete
    6. Loving these ignorant posts. This is why none of us talked about the deck. Gothitelle is the definition of under hyped thanks to try hard theory-mons who have never actually placed well in an event. Gothitelle is smashing Nats. Surprise ;)

      Delete
  7. Gothitelle is from EPO not BLW :) . And wouldn't you want more Catchers to hopefully lock something on the Active spot and buy some time while you thin out your deck and set everything up?

    Anyway, that's why I love European player base - there are so many Nationals here that something more creative will eventually show up :D .

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'd attribute this to the early date of their nationals, not the creativity of the players.

      Delete
    2. So close minded...

      Delete
  8. Crowning it a BDIF contender is a bit early. I am strongly intrigued by the deck (and have been testing it since a couple weeks before I wrote about it), but I don't think I'd play it necessarily during US Nats.

    ReplyDelete
  9. its won the last two battle roads i attended in the states, went 6-0 both times. It legitimately wins, thanks for the list Esa.

    ReplyDelete
  10. So many ridiculous comments on here... remember that this is a deck that maintains a CONSTANT TRAINER LOCK.

    A Keldeo tech won't do anything unless it can attack for 130 or retreat for free under trainer lock, which is HARD. If benched, it will be catchered up..

    Goth plays Tool Scrapper to deal with Garbodor. 'nuff said.

    Blastoise is your toughest matchup. Although, as long as you evolve into Goth before they evolve into Blastoise, you have a fair chance. Donks happen from time to time, but you do have 14-15 basic pokemon in your deck, so eh..

    Also Esa, your sample list is not the best, and I think you know that. Anyway, I am fairly confident the deck will establish itself in the top tier.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I don't entirely agree with the list or duskgor being bdif contender, but man look how many dumb hateful comments in here.

    1. It's a surprise deck (though not so surprising if you actually up to date with the japanese metagame) so people don't really prepare and tech for it and everyone seems to think it's such a bad deck and opted to tech for other decks.

    2. Garbodor is no threat for this deck, it's actually preferable and much easier to lock than regular big basic. Blastoise is mostly auto-win if you setup goth first, no explanations needed. You will struggle if blastoise sets up first, but since 2 keldeo is the 'magic' number now, things can still turn around given the oppoturnity.

    3. It plays a higher number of basics than other evo decks, yes it is susceptible to donk but not as much as you think.

    4. The 2/3 tropical beach alone can worth more than a plasma pokemon playset. So no it's not a cheap deck.

    5. So you manage to fit 2 keldeo in your plasma deck, then? You can't even play float stone, how about adding a darkrai also?

    6. The problems for this deck is darkrai with keldeos, late setups (like any other evo decks) and missing a crucial deck & cover.

    --

    Some different choices I've seen for the euro version is the usage of com search instead of the dowsing. The rest is just pure netdecking from japanese blogs and reports.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's pretty funny how a wartortle can now be considered a tech.

      LOL

      Delete
    2. Darkrai with Keldeo isn't too much of a problem unless they run 2 Keldeo. If they only run 1 you easily Catcher it and keep it active the rest of the game

      Delete
  12. How do you consistently get your DCE every turn after setting up to keep the lock going?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Musharna's ability with your 2 cards deck ^^

      Delete
  13. Columbus is the best! Can't wait for my nationals!

    ReplyDelete
  14. I think the only possible changes to the deck would be:
    +1-1 Accelgor (to deal with blastoise)
    +1 tool scrapper (take out float stones if somehow the lock is broken)
    What to take out is a much more difficult ordeal.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Dear god you have to be one of the dumbest players i have ever seen. So many easy ways around this........another classic Esa ANOTHER BDIF Latilock bro

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. so many easy wasys around this, like what exactly? 2 keldeos and float stone? works until tool scrapper is played. switch? sure.
      every decks best hope against it is to hopefully destroy their setup before the lock is established.
      now a lot of decks do have the speed and power to do this, but duskcelgor can easily come back from a 5 prize deficit once all the pieces are in place.
      one of the best counters is actually ninetales with bright look. burn them accelgors :P

      Delete
    2. Only small amounts of the deck being played, won more than 4 BRs, won a national, top 4 a carnival. Might be the surprise factor, but the deck is legit. You sir, have to be the dumbest poster here.

      Delete
    3. Ohhhhhhh, in your stupid face

      Delete
  16. Umm. READ THE STUPID ARTICLE!!! THIS DECK WON THE NORWEGIAN NATIONALS, MEANING THAT THE DECK IS STORNG AND SOUND!!! IT'S NOT SOME DUMB LIST THAT A TODDLER MADE! IT IS VERY STRONG AND A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!!!!!!!!! HONESTLLY DO YOU EVEN READ THE ARTICLE???!!!!!!

    MAN YOUR ALL RETARTS!!!!!



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DID YOU EVEN READ THE ARTICLE?
      I PERSONALLY THINK THAT IT IS THE SURPRISE FACTOR (NOT UNLIKE GARCHOMP). I WISH PEOPLE LIKE YOU WOULD BE MORE TOLERANT OF OTHERS OPINIONS. YOU MAY THINK IT IS THE BDIF BUT OTHERS DON'T. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE IT YOUR GOAL TO BASH PEOPLE WHO SHARE A DIFFERENT OPINION.

      (Wow that was hard typing in all caps. Probably going to annoy someone)

      Delete
    2. 'MAN YOUR ALL RETARTS!!!!!'

      Irony at its finest.

      Delete
    3. I didn't say it was the BDIF, I just said that you shouldn't forget that it won the nationals and should not be taken lightly.

      Delete
    4. Did you even read the ARTICLE title? XD you retart.

      Delete
    5. I did read the article, and again, it won the nationals and should not be taken lightly, maybe your the retart.

      Delete
    6. This guy is just a retart!!! This is so funny.

      By the way you retart read this:
      Retarded spelling of 'retard'
      HAR GHA URA SUK @ HAXORING
      And?
      SHATAP URA RETART
      A morons way of saying RETARD...

      That is the definition of retart found here:
      www.dictionaryupdate.com/retart

      Delete
    7. Your the one bashing me dude, calling me names and acting like a little kid, man your annoying, shut up and get out of my grill.

      Delete
    8. Yeah you Retart XD. Honestly he just called us all retarts (thinking he is a little kid).

      Delete
    9. somebody shoot me.

      Delete
  17. I don´t know which one is better here, the article or the comments below!! I tested the list with some chances against my other 5 metagame decks with my frind, at this came on top of every deck in best of 7 serieses. The best thing I noticed was that it wins always when it gets the setup even if you are 5 prize cards behind. Thanks for the list!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I 100% agree with your first statement.

      Wouldn't be surprised if Esa did as well.

      Delete
  18. So if you can't get your hands on a pair of Tropical Beaches, would a deck like this still work or is the draw power of Beach that critical?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't play it without Beach. If you don't have them, cross this off your list of decks to play.

      The deck cannot attack on the first turn and you NEED the draw.

      Delete
  19. Haha, I love this thread, it's so funny to read. Ok, as a player who runs Darkrai/Lasers (and sometimes Aspertia), VictoRayEels (Victini/Ray/Eels, and White Tea (Still very solid IMO)I can say that against Goth decks (and most stage two decks), I've donked my fair share of Basics. Going here's a little flaw in the design of the build. Speed=Uphill battle. It's as Stage 2 deck, meaning it needs Rare Candy, and if it can't get that Candy T2, then you're more than likely screwed, especially since everything in here is Donked by Bouffalant DRX (You laugh, but I Donked three Gothitelle decks in the past two tournaments I've been to with Darkrai/Aspertia. On top of that, every card in this deck is less than 140 HP, meaning Darkrai/Absol in Laser decks have no problem beating them out. It's the same with Tornadus EX. I've donked Gothita and Shelmets in testing all day long. At Battlroads a few days ago, I witnessed a Tornadus EX PLF donk a Shelmet with one Plasma Energy,(Started with DCE in hand, Colress Machine, and Skyla)It's so easy to donk this deck with anything, it just matters on your meta.

    ReplyDelete
  20. in a way pokemon tcg is also a game of luck. :D it would be better to play against the deck owner to know how it really works if possible. or just wait for the World champs to happen

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course it's luck lol. Randomizing decks and drawing 7 to start with...anything can happen. You can easily start with a bad Pokemon or have a supporter drought.

      Delete
  21. If the opponent runs Latias and gets it to the active spot, this deck won't work with Mew.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The key here is Latias. No one runs Latias.

      Delete
    2. And you can just attack the Latias with Accelgor. Or Catcher around it.

      Delete
  22. This is just me but I've now noticed that every time Esa makes an article about a deck, that deck completely gets destroyed by other decks in the next big event after the article, so if Esa makes a article about Plasma Klinklang being good (which it is), Plasma Klinklang will utterly get destroyed. I played against a deck like this last night at my local tournament and the 40 year old guy was depressed as he had lost all but one game (which was against a 10 year old girl who thought Milotic was a great idea for Blastoise/Keldeo). So this deck's victory is most likely a one off as I don't see something like this, winning outside of Norway.

    ReplyDelete
  23. nice article Esa, I love the deck. thanks a lot =]

    ReplyDelete
  24. The deck is at best tier3. It is clunky and there is the donk factor too, and no need to mention the autoloss to Keldeo decks that are tier1 in this format.

    I have tested the deck long before this news, and I believe that a lot people in the world did the same. The reason I wouldn't play it for BRs (and let's not even talk about Nationals), is that it is too risky to be donked, to could not setup, to be outspeeded, to face Keldeo techs, to face a Blastoise Keldeo deck, etc...

    I do not critic the player from Norway, because he had guts playing that, but I critic this article that try to let fool us that this deck is amazing.

    This website is becoming crap with such articles. This day was already played in Japan, why have not made an article EARLIER ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I totally agree and I want to tell Esa this,"stop fucking up The Deck Out with crappy articles!!!"

      Delete
    2. It's his website, he could say the same thing about all the comments.

      Delete
    3. This website only good point over 6prizes is because it talks about Japan meta.

      If this kind of deck that was widely played in Japan is posted here only after a player from Norway has the idea to play that too, what is the point reading this website ?

      Most of articles here are mediocre such as this one.

      Delete
  25. Went against a Darkrai/Terrakion deck with this, and it actually held its own. However, in the last few turns, it ran out of resources and I just couldn't draw into the DCE every turn, not to mention one was discarded early to Juniper. If there were a way to search DCE or recover it reliably, this deck would have potential. Also, the 2-1 Musharna line is pointless. Often times it just put me to sleep, and I was unable to wake up for a couple turns, making it an easy prize for the opponent. I love the Dusknoir line; it should be 2-2. Town map could be replaced with another catcher.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think you're using munna and musharna incorrectly lol

      Delete
    2. your using the wrong musharna. Its the look at 2 take 1 off deck not, flip for sleep.

      Delete
  26. My thoughts after testing this deck...

    The hardest turns for this deck are the initial 2-4 turns. If its opponent gets an explosive start, it will flat out lose. Even Mew EX can be donked by Plasma's premier finishers, or will at least get T2ed by Thundurus and Kyurem. Additionally, while Gothitelle is not that hard to get out in practice, as are Accelgor and Mew EX, I find that Dusknoir(and occasionally Musharna) are near impossible to pull out, because you are already blowing all your Ultra Balls just to get the previous 3 Pokemon out on time to not lose. You need a very, VERY explosive start(such as Tropical Beach, Mew EX, Gothita and Float Stone all in your opening hand) to keep pace with the fastest decks in the format(RayEels and Blastoise you can keep up with to some degree of success, but I'm pretty sure that this deck is out of its league when it comes to Darkrai, and Plasma(with a bit of luck)).

    However, one small advantage is that you have some leeway to fall behind. You can throw away 5 Prizes with practically no repercussions(it only gives you stronger Ns), giving you the time to set up the lock.

    It may be Tier 2 or even Tier 1 material(I wouldn't know), but I am very sure it doesn't qualify for the BDIF tag(to be fair, neither does TDK, which to some degree has been overhyped). In fact, I'd venture to say that the fact that this deck performed so well indicates the lack of a BDIF.

    These are just my thoughts; you're free to disagree with me(as I suspect many will).

    ReplyDelete
  27. I have to say that this deck SEEMS to have potential, but I haven't done any testing. I think that the biggest thing that made the deck work is the surprise factor. Think back to the 2011 world championships and Ross's deck. It was a crazy deck that very few people new about and it did really really well. I think this deck has had the amount of success that it will have, but now because people know about it, it won't be that good.

    Also for the people who are bashing the Deck Out and Esa, leave. Esa works on this website to help people as much as he can. He doesn't have to spend hours writing articles, monitoring the site, and doing testing, but he does. He has also won 7 national championships and has built 2 worlds decks, so I think he will have more understanding of the game than you. So before you post a mean post about Esa, think about all that he has tried to do to help you get information, and also realize he is very good at this game. You may not agree with him, but you don't need to call people retarts

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You did read those articles about his first years, right? Just saying, those first 2 Nationals wins he talked about by now are not that much of an accomplishment honestly.

      Delete
  28. I just want to note that this was Norway - a place where Quad Sigilyph won a Regionals and where Empoleon/Accelgor saw a decent amount of success, neither of which had any success in other parts of the world. It just means we should take Norway results with a grain of salt and not rush ahead and immediately name it BDIF or even Tier 1.

    That said, I've seen this deck in action and it is extremely powerful if played by a good player with a good list. Trainer lock is ridiculous in this very item reliant format, and a T2 Gothitelle straight up destroys most of the decks in the format. It has a host of issues though, including having a very difficult first few turns and not really being able to handle a ton of early game pressure. I played against this at a Battle Roads and after knocking out a Gothita turn 1 and every subsequent turn, the deck just couldn't recover. It also has issues with time restraints, unlike where in Norway where Swiss is best out of three.

    Time will tell whether this deck can compete with the best in other parts of the world. We should look at Battle Roads results and decide from there before jumping to sudden conclusions. tl;dr, hyping it to insane levels is a little over the top right now, but hating on it doesn't get anyone anywhere either.

    - Blah

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "I just want to note that this was Norway - a place where Quad Sigilyph won a Regionals and where Empoleon/Accelgor saw a decent amount of success, neither of which had any success in other parts of the world. It just means we should take Norway results with a grain of salt and not rush ahead and immediately name it BDIF or even Tier 1."

      False information, GOOD TRY.

      Delete
    2. I am a player from Norway playing in Masters, and I have never heard of a Quad Sigilyph-deck win a regs., and I have never seen Empoleon/Accelgor have anything of success here. If you are looking at results from juniors, you don't have to do here...

      Delete
    3. Empoleon/Dusknoir won a Regionals in Norway, not Empoleon/Accelgor.

      The Regionals won by Quad Sigilyph was in Singapore.

      Close enough, right?

      Delete
  29. This deck is REALLY good. BDIF? Nope. You can't afford to get donked on the first game, because even if you win the second one, you'll probably run out of time and in Sudden Death, this deck sux

    ReplyDelete
  30. WELP

    I messed up my locations, and yeah, I meant Empoleon/Dusknoir (was thinking of Accelgor at the same time, probably where my mistake came from).

    My point still stands though that Norway has a different metagame and tournament style, meaning the results don't always apply to the rest of the world.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Gothitelle/Accelgor is 7-0 at German nats. Problem?

      Delete
    2. What are you basing your point on? A long history of unusual decks winning major tournaments in Norway or ONE Regionals. I'm going to guess it's the latter and that your point doesn't have much of a solid basis.

      As a counter example, the deck that won Norway Nats last year was Darkrai . . . very mainstream as it turned out.

      Delete
  31. Esa, Thank you for highlighting this deck. I've tested the deck against several of the current Tier 1s. The issue as I see it is just as many here have explained. Difficult early game and susceptibility to donks of each of the basic lines. I have altered the ball count/ type numerous times as well as the supporter lines and I just can't seem to get the best combo. Additionally, because of the thin lines of most cards junipers and ultra balls can be quite difficult to initiate. Deck and cover without Dusknoir almost certainly means a knock out of either mew or accelagor because of the inability to move damage. Finally, Keldeo (w/ stone or two energy) has proven quite a challenge as "rush in" negates the impact of "deck and cover". I love the concept and really enjoy playing this deck, but as much as I would love this deck be tier 1 it will likely remain a good tier 2.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Obviously the decklist is not what you want to run. But this deck works. I think Rayeels with 2 Keldeo would like to have a word. Same with Blastoise.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I tested this deck a while back and found these issues:
    - A sigiliph (or sigiliph based deck) completely destroys this deck.
    - Early mewto's with CDE is an instant loss.
    - Late turn mewto = still a huge treat.

    What about adding some "Pokemon Catchers" to counter the sigiliphs/mewtos ?

    ReplyDelete
  34. + an opponent who has their Mew on the deck before you have..

    ReplyDelete
  35. My 12 year old beat this deck with his TDK at a BRs this weekend. How do you say? oh, he used Deoxys to kill Goths and then obliterated the field. TDK has enough options to destroy anything you come up with....even the dreaded item lock.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not going to debate the point about TDK, but how did he/she beat Goths with Deoxys? You can't play Lasers, and Helix Force is a 3HKO(not to mention they still have Items to pull off their setup).

      Delete
    2. Gothita has 50 Hp, a first turn Deoxys (prism and Colress machine) means you're OHKOing all day. once they're gone, you've won.

      Delete
    3. how can you kill with Deoxsys? simple, just make it your top priority to get a deoxsys out in T1. Unless the Gothicelle player has a top hand he or she will not get a Gothicelle on the board in T2. And even if the Gothicelle lands the Deoxsys player still has a huge advantage since mew + accelgor takes time to set up correctly.

      @ gothita, you will only play 1 (2 max) Ghotita with 50HP in this deck. Future sight is a good power but uselesss since you do not want to spend your PRECIOUS double energy on it. You are better of using the 60HP Ghotita which also happen to be allot better in mirror matches.

      Delete
    4. Future Sight requires P. If you run even one 50HP Gothita, you're either fucking up your energy lines or won't be able to attack with it ever. Also, you want to beach early, not attack with subpar attacks.

      Delete
  36. Hi everyone!
    I came up with a deck that I would say to be very different than any other decks out there. Playing online, it has shown a lot of potential.
    However, I don't have someone to play with locally so it has been difficult for me to do a full evaluation of the deck against the tier-1s.
    I really need someone with a tier-1 deck to play multiple games with online.
    Let me know if you can help!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. sure, I am willing to help! I added you to my google+ circles. Just give me a message when you are online.

      Delete
  37. Time to tech sneasel corner in Darkrai...

    ReplyDelete
  38. What would it feel like replying to every single comments of this article, oh man... Anyways, I think most of you took the title of this entry out of the context, because it isn't the BDIF, but I believe that when someone is able to improve the list this entry has a lot, then it has a very good match-up against all the important decks of this metagame.

    We have alredy seen success of this deck in the American Battle Roads and Germany's Nationals, so I think the Norway argument should be forgotten now. It has become an essential part of our current metagame and you have to deal with it.

    And off the record, next time before you start bashing the deck I introduced, please try it out. I don't know how anyone could ever compare this deck to Latias EX, which was an article I made to make something fun and, because people wanted it. THIS deck here is a real deal.

    100th comment, lol wtf.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Hey Esa, a very off-topic question, but do you have your worlds invite?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey, great question!

      No, I don't have my Worlds invite since I only have about 300 CPs, but I'm confident enough I can get to top8 of Nationals in order to secure my Worlds invite. But of course I'm aiming at winning Nats once again and get not only the invite, but also the travel award!

      Delete
  40. I enjoyed the article however I don't like your list. I feel that a accelgor deck should be more reliant on dusknoir. I would take out the Musharna line and add in a 2-0-2 line of dusknoir. I also believe that taking out the pokemon cmmunications for level balls would be a solid play. 3 Catchers is also a must in this deck.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Does this article have the most comments in the single article of The Deck Out?:D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep, I think the most before was about fifty, give or take.

      Delete
    2. In fact, the highest amount so far was 87 in the Playmat-contest entry, but I don't know if that counts, lol.

      Delete
  42. Well, people are still underestimating this. I built it to test with my group, and they all got annoyed at me to no end. The deck is awesome, and as an ex-mtg player, the lock kinda reminds me a lot of MTG locks. It's more consistent and resourceful than most people think, and I've won every single match against several different lists of TDK, for example.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think it is quite the opposite. You most likely won because your friends didn't anticipate this new deck and therefore did not take the required measurements to counter it.

      Delete
  43. I got beat by that in a battle road when I was playing landorus deoxis

    ReplyDelete
  44. The fact that no one can really state a true counter is what should have us all worried that this deck can just run through the entire metagame.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. darkrai with 2 keldeo ex. with a darkrai out and energy on one of the 2 keldeo's, there is no way to be para locked.

      Delete
  45. I lost to this deck at Battle Roads last weekend due to whiffing a Colress Machine for a Deoxys Donk with my TDK list :( This deck is strong in our current Meta and its seeing a lot of play where I'm from. If it sets up, it wins especially if your not expecting it. I've started running two Keldeo's in my Darkrai list just because of this deck and I'm getting better results against it, but it still slows everything down and is a just a pain in the Ass to play against!

    ReplyDelete
  46. The problem with running to Keldeos in Darkrai is that you'll probably end up with a dead card against pretty much other match-up, and it also increases the chance of opening with a sole Keldeo even more.

    -DrunkSpinda

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The only reason I started running the 2 Keldeo's is because the deck is everywhere in my area. Our Battleroads aren't very big and when 10+ people are showing up with this deck, your going to face it throughout day multiple times.

      Delete
    2. A second Keldeo also helps when they Catcher/Laser your first one and you don't wake up. 2 Keldeo is strong in any matchup with Lasers except Garbodor. Also, you reduce the chance of having the one you run prized.

      Delete
    3. Not to mention that just like with Machamp Lv.X in the DP/MD-on formats, one of the greatest things about running 2 Keldeo is that you don't have to bench the second one. If it is unnecessary, use it as Ultra Ball fodder or something.

      Delete
  47. I just want to say that this deck is very good !
    It has a lot of 50/50 matchups against all the popular decks and in the hands of a good player (norwegian players are good)it can get u a spot in top cut in any tournament in this format. Unless people got scared of the results and overteched against this deck but thay will probbably lose against other decks becouse of concistency.

    Pokemon is a game of who makes the fewest mistakes. If u dont know what the deck does u will probbably lose. Test the decks u think u will face @ nats and than comment instead of just shouting out.

    Esa thank u for another good article about a very good deck in the current meta !

    ReplyDelete
  48. Esa, Keep rocking these great articles. I really appreciate the time you devote to writing good content every week. Don't let the haters get to you! :)

    I like the deck. item lock is very strong right now. I don't think its the best deck in the format, but its still very good. I think its too susceptible to being to slow and getting donked.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I totally agree with all you said.


      Go Garchomp

      Delete
  49. I have a question. Imagine an accelgor has 30 damage on it, and it attacks something with a rock guard. What happens first, accelgor is knocked out, or shuffle him into your deck?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Having played against the deck I will say this, that it is one tough sob to play against. Unfortunately all my experience is against the ones on PTGO, and there is no tropical beach there. Without tropical beach the deck doesn't have enough power to recover from an N to consistently draw into the cards it needs late game. I'm sure I would have lost a few games of those games if my opponent did happen to have a beach in play.

    Playing against the deck I recomend the following importan pieces of advice.

    Bench as few pokemon as possible to avoid the dusknoir problems, and take out the dusk skulls or dusk noirs before the get acctive or you could be in a world of hurt.

    If you can't get the dusk skulls go for the Accelegors. If they can't keep one then they can't attack.

    Running a second Keldeo in Darkrai (maybe I'm the only one who does this) improves this match up dramatically, and Absol can practically OHKO given the large bench sizes.

    Don't put the virbank down until the opportune moments (like making sure your paralyzed guy dies to the poison, or to kill beach you don't really need virbank here)

    Save an N or two for when they start to come back on prizes (a N to one or 2 cripples this deck more than most if they can't draw back into the DCE and Mew they need)

    I'm not sure it's the BDIF, but it's certaintly strong.

    ReplyDelete
  51. If it gets set up, and the other side is unable to get energy around to their main attackers, it's over, and a Keldeo is a must.

    I faced this deck in Battle Roads yesterday vs a very confident player. I used Darkrai/Absol/Hammers/Lasers/Keldeo/Sableye

    I was worried early on, as 2 Mew were up along with Accelgor, with Gothita on the bench. The way I was able to win this battle.. yes.. I won.. 6-0, was the fact that I was able to pull an Enhanced Hammer at a perfect time early, which eliminated a huge opportunity for them to get going. They couldn't recover it back so struggled to find energy a few times. I then just kept catchering the main threat.. Gothita(s), and killing them off asap, luckily for me it was never able to evolve. but it didn't matter too much, as I already had the energy all around thanks to a solid T1 and T2.

    I agree that do not lay down Virbank at all early on until YOU know you can benefit from it yourself and really end the game with it. I discarded both of mine as I didn't need the extra damage since my Darkrai had claw attached.

    This deck is annoying, yes, but if you get a solid start, and just keep killing those Gothita, and pray that they don't have more than 1 on the field at a time, you can definitely beat this.

    Enhanced Hammer beats this deck.. simply put. And the fact that EHammer will be around because of Plasma Basics, people will figure it out.

    There's a reason a topcut player last week who won with this 6-0 in BRoads, didn't run it this time around (Yesterday).

    If they have an exceptional start, sure they will definitely rip you up.. but isn't that true with any deck?


    Enhanced Hammer, kill Gothita asap, and you'll be fine.

    I took the para/poison from Mew a few times, and thankfully my next turn I was able to hammer so the opponent had no way to attack again. Without Hammers, it's true, as I had no Keldeo up, it would have been a rough game.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Remember, Goth will most likely get rotated.. no way Emerging Powers is staying after the competitions this year. Let it have a few wins before then.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Though it might be printed in ex battle boost, which could also mean no rotation.

      Delete
    2. Yeah I don't see a rotation coming. We aren't getting ex Battle Boost, while Japan is. That means if it was NXD-on or whatever, they'd have the BW stuff at their disposal while we would not. They gave us Call of Legends and rotated it out eventually. That tells me no rotation this year, and XY-on in 2014.

      Delete
  53. This deck works very well but unfortunately it gets ripped to shreds by latias/sigiliyph unless you attack with accelgor, but then mew etc. is sitting there waiting to die and give out 2 free prizes

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No one plays Latias/Sigilyph because it's bad. Victini Ex can't turbo energize the Sigilph because its ability shuts off all ex attacks/effects, including your own.

      Delete
  54. You've GOT to be feeling pretty good about this article with today's win in Masters. Pretty cool, man!

    ReplyDelete
  55. Go ahead, Esa. It's ok if you post an "I told you so" article. LOL

    Great job foreshadowing

    ReplyDelete

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.