Tuesday, December 20, 2011

Double tournament report w/ Chandelure - once again

Still missing Litwicks
Hello to all The Deck Out followers!

I just came back from a great weekend of 2 Cities and here I am with a report from them. If you've read my latest report you know that I played the offensive version, which was surprising for many players worldwide. I think it's better than the healing version in the random match-ups, which are the scariest ones and that's why I play it. I also love how well trainer lock and Special Conditions comboes together.

I played once again Chandelure like in my last Cities weekend but this time with a bit modified list. I didn't feel like switching the deck since I did so well in the last Cities. I usually switch the deck only if I get too bored to it or if I don't do well enough with it.

I played this list in both of the Cities this weekend and didn't modify it between the tournaments like 2 weeks ago. Here is the list this time.


4x Litwick(Teleportation Burst – Yeah I didn't still have any Promos lol)
4x Lampent
4x Chandelure
2x Doduo
2x Dodrio
3x Oddish
2x Vileplume
1x Chansey
1x Blissey Prime
1x Jirachi
2x Pichu
1x Cleffa


4x Pokémon Collector
4x Twins
4x Sage's Training
2x N
3x Pokémon Communication
2x Tropical Beach
3x Rare Candy

3x Rescue Energy
8x Psychic Energy

As you can see – if you read my previous report – I dropped Switch/PONT and 1 Rescue Energy for 1-1 Blissey Prime line. This decision was not necessarily because I needed Blissey before but because I wanted to test how Blissey works in this deck. If I'm gonna write an article about Chandelure I must fully understand both versions of the deck. So, to be honest I just changed the list for the change. A little change can't hurt much – I think.

Anyways, let's get down to the first tournament on Saturday.

1. Round Vanilluxe/Victini/Vileplume

So, attacking version of Chandelure or non-attacking version of Chandelure – Vanilluxe is an autowin. Don't set-up Plume – get a fast Chandelure and once you have targeted down their Victinis with Cursed Shadow, they start flipping double tails time to time. In this match, the 2nd Victini was prized so it wasn't really a match at all. Blissey makes the match-up the most autowinnable match in the whole format.

2. Landorus/Machamp Prime/Vileplume

I built this deck with him a day before the tournament. We both had very slow set-ups and that really hurt him. Machamp would be very good against the ordinary spreading version of Chandelure but it really can't handle the attacking version because Chandelure OHKOs Machamp. Nuff' said, I won the game thanks to Eerie Glow.

Rounds from 3 to 5

I completely forgot. I suspect them to be Zekrom / Reshiram match-ups because I don't remember much of them. All the games are so similar that they usually get mixed up together. I really should start taking notes in a tournament so I can make better reports. Anyways, I'll add these matches as soon as I'll release my report in Finnish on the Finnish Pokémon forums and ask who I played against.


6. Round Mirror

This was very straightforward game and it was against my big brother which suprised me a little bit. I don't remember the last time we were the only undefeated players left in the last Swiss round. He had a bad start compared to my ok start and I just run through him.

Top8 Zekrom/Eelektrik/Tornadus

1. Game

In this match-up it all comes down to how many prizes you gave them before you're able to set-up. Once you've given 3 prizes, you can still win. With 4 you must play perfectly and with 5 prizes, it's almost impossible to make a come back. However, in this game Pichu slept in the front a long time so I was able to set-up maybe too long. I guess I gave 2 prizes before I came attacking. Tynamos at 40 HP are too easy for Chandelure to kill thanks to Jirachi.

Game 2

Look at the game number one. Instead of 2 prizes, I gave 3 prizes and it came down to 1-1 prizes but I still had the game all the time.

Top4 looked like this:Chandelure/Vileplume
6 Corners
6 Corners

Top4 Six Corners/Spinarak

1. Game

I just hate this match-up. I also know that the players tech in Spinarak just to give Chandelure huge issues. Thanks to Spinarak I really can't use Babies at all because I took out the Switch from my list. I have to set-up without Babies which makes things difficult. Fortunately, I had a good start but made a huge misplay in turn 3, which costed me the game. I used Sage and had an option to take a Chandelure (3 energy Lampent on the bench) but for some reason thought that I already had the Communication in my hand. So I discarded Chandelure, looked at my hand and facepalmed. After a couple of turns Kyurem killed me to the death.
0-1 (8-1)

2. Game

Ok, because I lost the first game Baby option was completely unavailable. Thankfully I had a very good start and got a very early Chandelure spreading damage all over. His start was pretty slow and I was able to load energy to my active Chandelure. Once trainer lock is set-upped and I can start making havoc with Confusion to the big Pokémons, I gain the advantage. Six Corners doesn't have any energy acceleration so Confuse is HUGE against it unless they flip all the confuse flips heads. The game was pretty quickly mine.

3. Game
We had about 20 minutes left so Babies were once again out of the option. I had a decent start but so did he. The game went pretty much back and forth until he made a very crucial mistake -played Terrakion on the bench before Juniper. He had a full bench so I decided to use this situation as my advantage. I used Lampents Luring Light on Terrakion and brought it to active Position. Without Shaymin, he would never be able to retreat or attach enough energy to attack 90 with it so for the rest of the game the Terrakion just stood in the front while I slowly killed his bench with Cursed Shadow.

Finals Typhlosion/Magnezone

1. Game

I haven't tested this match-up at all because I really didn't think Typhlosion/Magnezone wasn't a viable option but I guess it really is in a format full of Zekrom/Eelektrik. I once again took an early control with Lampents Luring Light and while he struggled getting any energy I was able to spread around some serious damage. Trainer lock is just too much for a stage2 deck that isn't designed to set itself up in a trainer lock. The deck really start up at all once I killed its only Magnezone Prime.

2. Game

I didn't get as fast trainer lock as in the early game so he was able to set-up 2 Typhlosions. I soon realised that it didn't really matter because Reshiram wasn't threat because it can't OHKO Chandelures and if they keep attacking with Magnezones they run out of resources too fast. Thanks to trainer lock they can't even get energy in the discard pile with Junk Arm, which makes things for them even more difficult. Typhlosion also inflicts damage on them, which makes killing things with Chandelure and Jirachi even easier. Last seal is confusion on the Magnezone, which are helpless in confusion and burn because they can't retreat because of trainer lock and can't use their powers thanks to special conditions. Chandelure is too good.

I won the tournament! I was very happy about it since it was my 3rd win in a row. My CC victories are now in total of 19, which is pretty nice in my opinion. I also finally got some NVI (loaned almost the whole deck for the tournaments from a friend) for myself and opened them for 4-3-1 Chandelure line.

I was satisfied with boosters but really wasn't that satisfied with the deck. Yes, it worked very well but I really didn't need Blissey that much in any of the games. There really wasn't that much of a challenge because the most familiar match-ups go all the time the same way around. Give a few prizes for them and win the game with Twins.

I really felt like I need a change of deck but didn't have energy to build a second good deck for the next tournament. So, I went to the next tournament with one promise in my mind. No matter what the result is, this will be my last tournament with Chandelure.

1. Round Kyurem/Cobalion/Electrode

I made a one very simple mistake in this game – forgot my game plan against a deck like this. I really shouldn't be set-upping Vileplume against this deck but somehow I played an Oddish on my bench. My opponent took an easy prize from it and once I N'd him to 1 card, he drew Juniper from it. Nuff' said I had nothing to do after that.

2. Round Zekrom/Eelektrik/Thundurus

So here's the deal. As I said in the previous tournament, this match-up is pretty much an autowin if you lay your damage counters correctly. They can't OHKO you, which is pretty ridiculous and they really can't too anything else either if you don't let them. I played this match-up too many times this weekend and they all went the same way – activate Twins, set-up trainer lock, win the game. This would happen for many times during this tournament.

3. Round Six Corners

This was against Miska. We have pretty much played the match-up and analyzed it and if he doesn't have any teches against Chandelure, there is nothing 6-corners can do. He removed all his Chandelure teches from the Saturday tournament so once he opened with Shaymin, I showed my hand to him and he scooped. We could've played for 15 minutes but the outcome of the match-up wouldn't have really changed from it.

4. Round Zekrom/Eelektrik/Tornadus

See Round 2.

5. Round Zekrom/Eelektrik/Tornadus

See round 4.

6. Round Zekrom/Eelektrik/Tornadus

See round 5. Yes, the metagame was pretty much full of these decks.

Top8 Reuniclus/Vileplume/Steelix/SuiTei/Kyurem

1. Game

I enjoyed a lot of this match-up because it was completely new to me. Steelix is a theorymon solution against Chandelure but it really doesn't solve the real problem – Lampent. He tried to set-up Reuniclus through Duosion playing 3 Solosis on the bench at the same time in the beginning. He was able to set-up Reuniclus but I just dragged it to the active position with Lampent. Reuniclus has 2x weak to Psychic, so I guess you figured already out what's gonna happen to an active Reuniclus if its the defending Pokémon in my turn. Nuff' said, I soon noticed that against all odds, this is near to an autowin as well.

2. Game

He tried to win the game with a Steelix since he realised Reuniclus would be dead-weight but since Onix only has 90 HP, Jirachi took Steelix quite easily down thanks to a few Cursed Shadows.

I was pretty disappointed because I felt like Chandelure was so overpowered at the moment that it was pretty much tearing through the whole format. I guess it has done the same in the tournaments all over the world now when it's public for everyone.

Top4 looked like this:


Top4 Mirror

1. Game

I tested only 1 mirror match before the tournament and noticed that it was pretty brainless match-up. The player who set-ups first has a huge advantage because he can pretty much control the game. I was fortunate enough to set-up very early and to begin the game so I had the game in hand. I noticed that he only had Litwicks on his bench and I already had Chandelure on play so I took a risk and Candied a Vileplume into the game. I spread some more damage and soon he scooped because thanks to trainer lock he wasn't able to get any Chandelures to play because I didn't give him Twins.

2. Game

Obviously he chooses to go first. For some reason I was able to set-up a T3 Chandelure once again. He was a turn late from me but since he went first, it was a very tough game. This was one of the best Chandelure mirrors that can ever happen because no one had a too huge advantage. I probably won the game to one not that big mistake. He played Chansey on his bench. I immediately checked his discard pile and noticed that he had used almost all his energy (he was playing the attacking version as well). His bench was full and he didn't had a Dodrio (Killed it) on it so I used the broken Lampent once again to drag the Chansey to the front. He had his last energy prized so I was able to damage Blissey Prime to 120 damage with Will o' Wisp and then killed his Jirachi, Blissey and Cleffa in the same turn with Chandelure. Lampent is so underrated.

Finals Kyurem/Cobalion/Electrode

1. Game

This was against the 2007 World Champion Tom Roos. We always have very tough and weird games with Tom and this match was no exception. Tom said after these games that in his testings the match-up has been pretty much an autowin to Kyurem/Cobalion/Electrode. I knew this wouldn't be easy and I really enjoyed the challenge. Most of the games with Chandelure is just repeating the same formula all over again and again. The reason I enjoy Pokémon is the challenged it offers time to time and this match-up really is one of the challenges it offers.

I didn't have that much of a good opening in this game (no collector in my opening hand) but had a Communication. I really hadn't any other option than to use Pichu, which I drew from the Sage. That gave him too many Trodes and knew I was in trouble because my Chansey was prized and my opening was weak. He blew up 3 Trodes by turn 4 and I didn't draw Chansey from the 3 prizes I got. I knew the game was over because he didn't get any under 3 energy Energymite, which is unbelievable without Research Records. I scooped soon enough. I told Tom after the game that I have no chance if the deck works like that in every game.

2. Game

We both mulliganed once and had horrible starts. We both set-upped soon enough but he set-upped a little bit faster. Once again I was in trouble thanks to my horrible draw and start but I had Blissey this time to buy me some time. I used Lampent to drag off energyless big Pokémons to the front a few times but he somehow got all the time everything he needed for retreating. I really didn't get get how much the deck has resources even after Energymites. However, something very funny happened in this game. I thought very carefully my every move and after many and many more turns I had a decent set-up and he was running out of resources. We both talked about the game later on the tournament and no one really understood what happened. I understood that I was in fact able to win the game after a few very crucial moves because I noticed that all the people in the tournament was gathered around our game and literally hold their breaths. I would have loved to have this game recorded. I can't explain in English or in Finnish what happened but I'm pretty sure that I played as perfectly as it's possible and made a right decision in every step of the game. This was probably one of the best games I have ever played in my life. And that's pretty much to say from a player who has won Yuta Komatsuda in a Palkia G mirror match.

3. Game

I once again had a very slow and bad start and had Chansey prized once again. I was pretty frustrated about those 2 things because I pretty much felt like the 2nd game went in vain because of these 2 things. Soon enough, he blow up 2 Trodes – I once again didn't draw Chansey from the prizes and lost the game.


So I placed 2nd in my 4th Cities this year. My placement for 4 CC are now 1st, 1st,1st and 2nd place. The best finish limit is just around the corner! I already have 23 Championship Points, which I'm very happy with since I wasn't able to attend any States/Regionals. I was very happy with the results from the tournament even though I had some bad luck in the finals. Well, it would be inhuman to win every time and bad luck happens so I wasn't that mad about it. I was also very happy to play a few very good and interesting games during the tournament. I also got some very important experience about playing Chandelure so I can make a very good article about it.

Now is time for change. After playing against 4 Zekroms in the Swiss I knew that I just wanted to get over the tournament start making a new deck. Playing Chandelure is fun when the match-ups are difficult and versatile but playing almost autowin and brainless match-ups isn't fun at all. I also have enough CP points from CC s to start playing more interesting decks like Six Corners in the future. I hope I can come up with good new approaches to decks just like before.

I hope you enjoyed the report and that you learnt a thing or two how Chandelure and its match-up work. My next update will be about the Ross.dec/The Truth and I'll be releasing at the same time as always my 2nd update of the week. Thanks for reading and feel free to comment!

P.S. Everyone who has contacted me regarding to The Deck Out goes global and offered their help – now would be great time to submit your entries about your country! I'm still missing a half of them.


  1. How is it that you feel you don't need blisey in any of the matchups then point out how much of an incovinence it is for it to be prized in the finals twice.

  2. How did Tom Roos win? Did he flood your field with damage or because you just had horrible luck?

  3. @Anonymous It is important in some matches. Such as Kyurem which spreads damage.

  4. Anonymous: I didn't need it in the finals against the same deck in the last tournaments. And the reason was pretty obvious - I had a Collector in my opening hand. I had to burn too many energy in the early game for retreating etc. and wasn't able to get Chandelure attacking. That's why I missed Blissey in those games. If I had Litwick(CFF) and would have started the first game, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have longed for Blissey. Sorry for the unclear words, I typed it 5AM.

    Anonymous: His deck practicly worked so well that whatever I did, he just Catchered/Switched every time when he needed to. As I said in the report, in the first game there wasn't much of what I could've done since he started the game. And yes, he mainly used Kyurem as an attacker, which made me miss the Blissey so much.

  5. Do you recommend Blissey, or is it better without?

  6. Anonymous: It depends completely on your metagame. I'll release full article of Chandelure next week so check it out for my full thoughts about the deck now that I have a lot of tournament experience with it.

  7. This is anon2 thanks for answering my question :) Love your blog! It helped me improve so much!

  8. What decks are the decks Blissey are helpful for? Just Kyurem?

  9. thabsurdnerd: I'm very glad to hear that!

    Anonymous: Well, Blissey makes many match-ups easier to play but I'm pretty sure it really benefits the most against decks that are able to spread. Blissey doesn't work with the idea of attakincg Chandelure that well because it discards all the energy. If you're running a 2-2 Blissey line or Seeker it's totally an another story but that deck is so much different than my version of this deck that there is no point comparing those two.

  10. Is it worth having if there are no Kyurem in your area? Sorry for all the questions.

  11. Anonymous: I'm pretty sure you don't need it if you're good enough a player. Don't worry, I'm always happy to answer any questions!

  12. Esa do you think the attack version of this deck absolutely needs Tropical Beach? It seems like it would contradict attacking and you wouldn't be able to use N to full effect if you have beach.

  13. Anonymous: I'm sorry but Tropical Beach is just broken in this deck even if you've the attacking version. You don't load 3 energy that easily and there is nothing better than using Twins for Candy and Beach, evolve Plume and use Beach for 5-6 cards in the turn 2-3. This has happened to me multiple times and Beach is the card that helps this deck to set-up so well. Without Beach this deck just isn't full.

    It's true that Beach may sometimes help your opponent (especially after N) but it helps you so much more and more often that you must play it in a Chandelure deck.

  14. If you only have 1 Beach would it still work well enough?

  15. is there any merit to having at least one teleportation burst litwick in your deck? i know you haven't had any CFF ones to play with, so i assume you have ended up attacking with teleportation burst at some point. I have found that 10 and retreat sets up some ko's quite nicely when you're not fully set up, but is it really worth not having that extra basic?

  16. how do u find room for all of the damage that comes to your field without blissey/seeker (for damaged chandys). having said that, what's your opinion on seeker?

  17. Anonymous1: Yeah I'm pretty sure that you can cope with 1 Beach as long as it isn't in prizes in crucial situations.

    Anonymous2: In fact, I've considered playing 3-1 Litwick line because teh effect of Teleportation Burst is very nice. Sometimes it can do the extra 10 damage to your opponent you need. So, yeah I guess it might work very well.

    Anonymous3: If you're playing the offensive version, you hae to think carefully your every move. It's not a deck that you can just play and expect do well. You need to be a good player to do well with it. With Blissey and Seeker things get a lot easier but it makes few match-ups a bit more autolosses(mostly things that OHKO you). That's why I prefer the attacking version. Seeker is great in this deck if you're running Blissey, otherwise it's dead-weight.

  18. I played low energy, 2-2 Blissey and Seeker version of this deck. I felt like Seekers really didnt help as much as i wanted them to help, of course picking up prizes one by one, you could abuse the effect a lot more, but as i tried to spread damage all around i felt like they helped my opponents a bit too much. Energys increase the pressure Chandelure does by 100% in average, its pretty huge diffrenc since you only have to last half as long if you play energys. IMO as always. ;D

  19. Plz, PLZ, make a report with CoKE. This decks looks SO BADASS in paper...

  20. Rasse: Indeed, I have tested the healing only a bit so far but the results have seemed not so decent with it than with the attacking.

    Fuzzy: Well, I don't like blowing up my tournament results in pieces with Electrode Prime but if I manage to get enough CP points from the next 2 Cities, I can try it out because there is no risk after that. And yeah, this deck is badass.

  21. If your meta is full of TyRam, Zekrom, Ross.dec, Kyurem, and the occasional Magnezone would the blissey be the correct play?
    Only one of fore mentioned pokemon can OHKO chandelure, and in a low energy count build healing and setting up multiple Jirachi KO's would be the best way to win.
    Also, what is your opinion of Cobalion in the deck? I hear it helps the Magnezone matchup immensely, but at the cost of playing Blissey and Cobalion, as well as the energy to attack with it, do you feel it would ruin, or atleast, decrease consistency?
    Thanks so much for your time and patience. :)

  22. Hey esa was curious if 3 tropical beach Is to much?
    Also noticed in you lists you have included has two pichu compared to the last list with two cleffa why the change?

  23. Hi just noticed something, why no Gloom?

  24. Anonymous1: I think that if your metagame description is correct, both varients work. I like the offensive better and the only match-up you really have problems with will be Kyurem because it's very difficutl to play. However, CObalion can help with that. I don't see how Cobalion makes the Magnezone match-up better since Magnezone has resistance to Metal but it surely is good against Kyurem.

    Anonymous2: I don't think 3 Beaches is needed because this deck is tight. 2 also works very well in this deck and it's a perfect number in my opinion. About the Pichu, you just remember incorrectly. I ran 2 Cleffas last time as well since Pichu doesn't fit my play style that much. Nothing really changed there.

    bb: Many have been wondering that. I needed space for the deck and almost never need it. I missed it a bit more this weekend than last weekend but I still was able to win the games even though I hadn't it. If you have space for it, it's probably good to run it but I like to run it without the Gloom.

    Thanks a lot for the comments and questions, I hope my answers are helpful!

  25. Anonymous #1 here :) Thank you very much for your thoughts, I've been using the Cobalion and find myself using iron breaker to keep the magnezone in place for a turn or two, and the iron breaker lets you concentrate cursed shadows somewhere else as it provides the damage needed to devolve it for a ko along with buying you a free turn. I've really been wanting to try to more aggressive version of the deck, but ultimately I think it comes down to playstyle. I've never had a super aggressive playstyle, but I actually want to change that.

  26. Is this deck better than magneel? I'm starting to see success with it everywhere. Should I even bother if I have no beaches? Should I even bother with Ross as well? They both look like fun decks, but I have no tropical beaches. :(

  27. Anon #1 above you pokemonjoe: The beach really does help in this deck, two is the perfect number, as i'm sure others will also say, but one is good, and none hurts somewhat. It's still a really great deck, but you might have to work your supporter lines differently, it's still a solid play I think. But I'd take the pro's word for it :) I also have dabbled with ross builds and once you're set up the beach is just there for your opponent to abuse, it attacks too much to fully abuse it imo.

  28. pokemonjoe and TimmyLupas: Yeah, Tropical Beach is pretty much a must in this deck. You can win games even if you don't have Beach in your deck but it's unlikely that you can win tournaments without it.

    If you want to play it without Beaches, I would suggest running some shuffle&draw instead of them. I also encourage you to run Gloom on the deck because without Tropical Beach, Twins is a lot worse. I would try to make the deck as consistent as possible if you don't have Beach. I'll try to find time for writing an article "how to build a deck with Tropical Beach if you don't own Tropical Beach" or something like that. Thanks for the idea since that is the question that really bothers many people at the moment.

  29. Love your blog!

    In your upcoming article on chandelure can you please comment on 1. When and why do you choose to set up vile plume or not? and 2. what order should I be setting up? sometimes I do really well with this deck and other times I'm terrible! I feel like I'm really missing something.

    also, can us regular players be competative without tropical beach?

    thanks again, so much!


  30. Ken: I've already written the article and I'm pretty sure I touched those questions of yours. As I said in the previous comment, I'l try to make an article about the Tropical Beach problem in the near future. At the moment I think that at least this deck requires Tropical Beach in order to do well but I'll do some more testing. I'm glad you like you like my blog! Thanks for your questions.

  31. Okay, so I re-read the tournament report. In brief here is what I understand:

    ~Trainer Lock as soon as possible
    ~Focus on getting set up (dodrio, and chandelures so that I can spread damage using his ability)
    ~allow free prizes in order to utilize twins and finish getting set up.
    ~Know the metagame so I know which poke's to knock out first (i.e. eelektrik, typhlosion, etc)
    ~utilize Lampent's luring flame to bring up high retreat pokemon

    thanks again, man. you rock!

  32. hey! I almost forgot, Merry Christmas! Hope you had a great day!

  33. I've been toying around with chandelure for the past 2 weeks and i'm quite impressed with it. However, do you think the deck will be as poient with the release of Next Destinies (mewtwo EX) i think that it's not going to be able to simply "keep up" with the deck. Do you think it will still be as viable when mewtwo comes around?

  34. Ken: That's pretty much it, merry Christmas for you too!

    Anonymous: That's a very interesting question. I have been testing it lately and I can either confirm or deny if Chandelure can keep up with Mewtwo EX or not. So far it has kept up with Mewtwo EX in testing but only time will tell.

  35. update: played a Zekrom/Tornadus/Eelectric deck on the online game. he had the advantage. got a T2 vileplume, used twins to get set up, took out his two tynamo and one eelektrik, and he ended up conceding. felt great! owe it all to you, bro!

  36. Hi Esa, I was wondering about the Cobalion/Kyurem/Electrode matchup. Why would you choose to not set up Vileplume? Because after testing I realised that Cobalion can simply Catcher and OHKO Dodrios. Without Dodrio you pretty much lose. Also, Vileplume can block their Research Records and potentially give them bad Energymites.

    Of course this is all my personal opinion, but I'd like to hear what you think about it :) Thanks!

  37. Ken: Great to hear that it works for you!

    888: It's because you really can't even set-up Vileplume against it. If they know how to play the match-up, they will blow up the Trodes and you aren't able to use Twins. In this format it really isn't possible to set-up 2 Chandelure, Dodrio AND Vileplume without Twins. I think that you can even theorymon that far. You don't need Dodrio that much because you pretty much attack with Chandelure. Abilities only aren't going to win you any games. Confusion is devastating against big things like Cobalion and Kyurem because it forces them to retreat and burn energy. Of course, if you have resources and time to set-up Plume in the late game it's very good to prevent the last prizes from them but take my word for it - in the early game Plume will be in your way more than it'll be in their way.


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