Wednesday, June 12, 2013

Plasma list comparison and analysis


Hello everyone!

Today I’ll be doing something different than usually. I take a look at TWO Plasma lists. Why I am

going to do this? Because I want to do something different from time to time and I believe this helps me to straighten my thoughts about my Nationals' deck choice.

2 Kyurems is the bare minimum for Plasma lists


I’ll analyze both lists piece-by-piece and how I see them. I'll also take a look at the pros and cons of both decks. I hope this will help you to build an even better Plasma list of your own and that you will learn something about the article and my insight on Plasma decks. It's been a good while since I made my last Plasma article, so I think it's about a time to make an up-to-date version of Plasma article.







List Number 1




Pokémon:

4x Deoxys EX
3x Thundurus EX
3x Tornadus EX PLF
2x Lugia EX
1x Kyurem PLF
=13

Trainer:

4x Professor Juniper
4x N
3x Skyla
2x Bianca
1x Colress
4x Pokémon Catcher
3x Colress Machine
4x Hypnotoxic Laser
2x Switch
3x Team Plasma Ball
1x Max Potion
1x Float Stone
1x Scramble Switch
1x Virbank City Gym
=34

Energy:

4x Plasma Energy
4x Prism Energy
3x Double Colorless Energy
2x Blend Energy WLFM
=13



The Good


4-2 Hypnotoxic Laser / Virbank City Gym

What I like about this list is the 4 Lasers and 2 Virbanks. I have very hard time fitting 4-2 line of these cards in any Plasma variant, because Virbank is especially against any other Basic deck very useless as it can benefit them more and if they are able to play it before you, you have 2 dead cards in your deck. I prefer playing 1 Virbank just, because my opponent will probably play it.

4 Deoxys EX

4 Deoxys EX is pretty much a must for every Deoxys EX deck. Granted, you will open with a LOT since you only have 6 non-Deoxys EX attackers and that’s why you really should have enough Switch cards in your deck if you are playing 4 Deoxys EX. Most Plasma lists need 4 Deoxys EX, because if you run 3 and prize even one of them, you are in huge trouble if your opponent KOs one of your remaining Deoxys EXs. 1 Deoxys EX on the bench is NOT enough.

14 Supporters

I would love to find space for a 15th Supporter in Plasma decks, but the fact is that the space is just TOO tight in Plasma lists. If you can put 15 supporters in Plasma deck and still fit all the techs you want, you are a master deck builder.



The Bad


1 Lugia EX & 1 Tornadus EX

What I don’t like in this list are the low amounts of REAL attackers. Lugia EX can be considered as a tech, if you only run one of them and you can’t rely your game plan on one Lugia EX. Tornadus EX on the other hand – well, it’s just a starter. Hitting 120 with 4 energy is just ridiculous for Plasma decks, because they don’t have enough energy acceleration. Against most decks Tornadus EX is as an attacker very bad as it’s weak to Lighting (Thudurus EX / Eelektrik variants), it uses too much energy resources (Enhanced Hammer Darkrai EXs eat you alive if you attach 4 energy to Tornadus EX) and it isn’t a fast attacker, which you would need against decks like Gothitelle/Accelgor. If you Windfall just once against Gothitelle with this list, you probably have already lost the game.

1 Kyurem

So, you have 1 Lugia EX, 1 Tornadus EX and 1 Kyurem. Thinking about drawing all the 5 prizes with Thundurus EX and Poison? Kyurem is THE attacker in this deck and without energy disruption like Hammers, Kyurem would be a staple of at least 3 in every single deck. However, I think everyone knows that 1 Kyurem is not enough. You will open with it too rarely (T1 Frost Spear is so good) and it’s your ONLY non-EX attacker in the deck. Practically you can scoop against Klinklang with one Kyurem and even against some random Sigilyph deck will win you, because of this. You can’t even force your opponent into a 7-prize game with only one non-ex attacker in your deck.

2 Switch – 1 Float Stone – no Keldeo EX

So the deck runs 6 good starters, 4 bad starters and 3 Switch cards…in most games you will open with the Pokémon you don’t want to open and with 3 Switching cards there is nothing you can about it! Also, I don’t even think that Thundurus EX can be considered as a good starter since the deck only runs 6 energy suitable for Thundurus EX. I have trouble drawing my 8 Lighting energy in the first turn and I don’t know what kind of magician you have to be in order to get the 6 energy working. I believe most lists play even more than 8 energy suitable for Thundurus EX.

Also, Special Conditions will kill you with 2 Switches. If you have discarded one Switch in the early game, good luck at getting rid off Special Conditions with one Switch in your deck… One unfortunate heads tails from the Hypnotoxic Laser and you are in a prize and coming back will be difficult. Not to mention, it would be pretty annoying if this happened to your fully loaded Tornadus EX or Lugia EX.

I don’t understand the Float Stone either. There really is no situation, where it’s better than Switch. It doesn’t get you rid of the Special Conditions and in most situations it’s just used one time. Not to mention that if your opponent happens to run Tool Scrapper, it isn’t useless, because they can always use it on Float Stone, whereas normally it would be a dead card in their deck. Running Float Stone is just not optimal without Keldeo EX.  


  3 – 1 Team Plasma Ball / Ultra Ball

First, 4 Balls is an overkill and second, the deck really wants Ultra Balls, so you can discard the energy in the early turns. Ok, maybe this deck wants to run Plasma Balls just, because you will never have enough energy in your hand in the early turns, which you can use to discard and to use Thundurus EXs attack to get the energy back. I think the optimal amount for Plasma lists is 3 Ultra Balls or in some extraordinary situations maybe 2 Ultra Balls and 1 Team Plasma Ball. I’ve tried both and time after time I go back to 3 Ultra Balls, because it’s so good in T1.

Energy Lines

This is the most bugging part for me in the list. 3 DCEs, but only one Lugia EX. Running Tornadus EX is no excuse to run 3 DCEs, because Tornadus EX can’t be one of your main attackers in the current metagame (otherwise you’ll get toasted). Tornadus EX is just not energy efficient enough compared to its firepower in the current format.

Also, as I explained before 6 Lighting energy (Blend and Prism) aren’t just enough. You won’t draw into them in the early turns, and early turns are the MOST IMPORANT turns for this deck. It should be a fast deck and these energy lines just don’t support the early turns well enough.

You can always use DCEs to retreat your Deoxys EXs, but do you really want to attach an energy for retreating, where you normally could just attach energy to one of your attackers? I think not. Back in the day, when I ran 2 Lugia EX in my Plasma, I even then ran 2 DCEs, because finding space for 3 is impossible. Unless you run 6 Lighting energy of course…


Colress

Especially with this amount of Balls and since you want your bench full almost all the time, Colress is very good in this deck. I think 2 Colress is the optimal count, because in the very early in the game you and your opponent will probably have at least 6 benched Pokémon combined. And after that, everything more than 6 is just plus for you.

Overall thoughts about the list

The biggest problem I have with this list is that I believe it’s too inconsistent and has no real game-plan. The deck can’t rely on Thundurus EX in the early game, due to the very low energy amounts. It can use Tornadus EX as the main attacker in every match-up, but we all know what happens if you do that. The deck could use the one Lugia EX to tear through everything since the deck DOES run Scramble Switch. However, with the lack of Thunder Knuckle energy, loading all those energy on Lugia EX isn’t an easy task. Kyurem is a very bad in this list since you don’t really have energy on it. You’ll be drawing DCEs and Plasma all the time even though you would like to get Blend and Prism energy.

The list has no real focus on anything and that’s the only thing Plasma lists should do. Have focus on early hitting with Thundurus EX, have focus on Lugia EX etc. In this deck it seems that there are just random cards put in together, which have no real synergy and top of that even the trainer and energy lines don’t support the lack of focus in the list.



List Number 2


Pokémon:

3x Thundurus EX
4x Deoxys EX
2x Kyurem
1x Landorus
1x Lugia EX(Plasma Gale)
=11



Trainer:

4x Professor Juniper
4x N
2x Bianca
2x Colress
2x Skyla
3x Ultra Ball
4x Colress Machine
4x Pokémon Catcher
4x Hypnotoxic Laser
1x Virbank City Gym
4x Switch
1x Dowsing Machine
1x Max Potion
=36


Energy:


4x Prism Energy
4x Blend Energy WFLM
4x Plasma Energy
1x Double Colorless Energy
=13

The Good


2 Kyurem – Landorus

For a long time I ran 3 Kyurem, but soon noticed that Landorus really is worth its space in the metagame full of RayEels, Darkrai EX and Plasma mirrors. It’s very good against all of these decks and with its second attack it can also give headache for Gothitelle from time to time. Kyurem is very good in the early game and so is Landorus. Whether you want to open the game with Kyurem or Landorus is a very difficult question. It depends mainly on what your opponent opens with.

Also, it’s good to mention that with these 3 non-EX attackers you are always able to force your opponent into a 7-pirze game when played wisely and it gives you directly and advantage especially in the mirrors unless your opponent is in a topdeck mode. If that’s not enough, with 3 non-EX attackers you don’t have to worry about Plasma Klinklang match-up.
 

The amount of good starters

This deck has 7 good starters compared to the first list. On top of that it has 4 Switch cards. And a lot better energy lines to actually SUPPORT the attacker you might open with. You don’t really get anything by opening with Thundurus EX if you aren’t able to draw energy to it and get energy to discard pile.


Stable energy lines

8 Blend/Prism is the ultimate minimum I would ever play in Plasma. I still sometimes whiff the energy with these energy lines, but playing more would make the rest of the deck worse. 8 Blend/Prism is already a compromise and I think running anything less than 8 is just a bad gamble.

3 Ultra Balls

A lot of people asked why I played Ultra Ball in the first place, but as everyone has already tested Plasma, I think everyone is comfortable with running Ultra Balls in Plasma. You want those energy to the discard pile and you want them as soon as possible. Preferably in T1. As I said before, I used to run 2-1 Ultra-Plasma, but I just found Plasma Balls weren’t good enough.

4 Switch

It’s 4 Switch or bust. Or 2 Keldeo EX and 3-4 Float Stones. There is no other way of running this deck in my opinion. You MUST have someone attacking T1 and switch cards are your insurance for that in the early turns. If you run less than 4 Switch cards, a skilled player will get you stuck in the late game and feed on easy prizes.  




The Bad



Gothitelle/Accelgor match-up

Since the deck doesn’t run Keldeo EX, Gothitelle/Accelgor is a very difficult match-up unless you are able to get a very strong start. I know what I am talking about, because I tested this match-up a lot before my Nationals and it was one of the main reasons, why I decided to run Gothitelle instead of Plasma. Without 2 Keldeo EXs, the match-up is favorable for Gothitelle without a T1 OHKO by Plasma.  



Overall thoughts about the list

I’m quite happy with the list, but the fact that I didn’t play it in the National Championships obviously tells you that I’m not quite comfortable how the deck still functions. I would prefer having 2 Lugia EXs in the deck, because I really like the Lugia EX approach, but finding space all the things necessary is very difficult in a Lugia EX variant. If I had played Plasma in the Nationals, this list would have been the list.




Conclusion


I hope this article was useful for every one of you and gave you clear picture of my opinion how Plasma decks should be built and how they should not be build. I really liked to do this kind of article, where I compare two of the lists, because it really puts things in a different perspective.  I think I will do these in the future as well!

Anyways, now it’s your turn. What do you think about the lists? Which of the lists in the article would you prefer more and what does your dream Plasma list look like? Are both lists just bad? What are your favorite techs in the Plasma? Feel free to leave any comments and questions considering the entry!

Thanks for reading!  



63 comments:

  1. What about :
    Pokémon:

    2x Thundurus EX
    4x Deoxys EX
    3x Kyurem
    1x Absol
    2x Keldeo
    =12

    Trainer:

    4x Professor Juniper
    4x N
    2x Bianca
    2x Colress
    2x Skyla
    2x Plasma Ball
    1x Ultra Ball
    4x Colress Machine
    4x Pokémon Catcher
    4x Hypnotoxic Laser
    2x Virbank City Gym
    3x Float Stone
    1x Dowsing Machine
    1x Max Potion
    =36

    Energy:

    4x Prism Energy
    4x Blend Energy WFLM
    4x Plasma Energy
    =12

    Im shure u will see what this list does ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. terrible list lugia is needed in this deck since its so good
      only 2 plasma and 1 ultra ball?!?!?! wtf were you thinking?
      you also should run scramble switch cuz you can power up lugia and kyurem much easier and you should run 3 thundurus cuz its so good

      Delete
    2. I disagree with you. The lists which play 3 Thundurus need at least 2 Ultra Ball but the lists chose to play 3 kyurem and 2 Thundurus don't need so much balls to sacrifice energies. Starting with kyurem is more powerful than Thundurus so even if that doesn't charge benched Pokemon, that's still a very good starter and it can totally be prefered to Thundurus. A lot of people are dropping the 3rd Thundurus from their list.

      For Lugia, it's according to what you're looking for. I do play Lugia EX but I totally understand people who don't want to charge such an amount of energy (and prepare to KO in the turn they play it the opponnent's Pokemon).

      Delete
    3. U are right. What ever u start u need an atacker and some deoxys and ur good to go! u will draw a second atacker and ur 3d deoxys fast.
      I found a list with focus on kyurem too be less consistant with a lugia tech than a thunderus focused list. Kyurem does the same dmg but u take a prize less. I dont mind but starting with a lugia is just awfull !
      Scramble switch is great if u play lugia or snorlax but i didnt like it in this list i rather take consistancy with dowsing.

      Delete
  2. 190 attack with absol plus 4 deoxys plus a full opponent's bench plus lassers, that gave me an idea for a deck :D

    ReplyDelete
  3. to few energies add one more. to the guy above and 1 ultra ball is way to few and 2 plasma balls? the shit dude
    3 ultra balls and 1 plasma is the best ball engine in this deck and 3 colres machine

    ReplyDelete
  4. Why dont you compare really good plasma lists for a change and not post this 2 kyurem plf lists? good players know that you need to run 3 kyurem plfs and not just two.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rather than just mentioning that 3 is better, and that "good" players do it" why don't you explain why there needs to be 3, and reasons for doing it over running just 2 instead of other options like Snorlax, Lando, and Absol.

      Delete
    2. Because kyurem is that good.

      Delete
    3. Because Kyurem is the main attacker of the deck and you want to play the "7 prize game". With 2 kyurem being your only non EX attackers you can't manipulate the prize game. Also Lugia is very fragile and can't be relied on for constant numbers of huge damage. Also Kyurem is easy to power up in 2 turns and I believe the Keldeo engine is required as it gives you unlimited retreat amd can reser blizzard burn. Also if your opponent doesn't deal with kyurem it is super easy to deal 180 with laser virbank combo.

      Delete
    4. The 7 prize game isnt that relevant with double KO's and lugia ex possible

      Delete
    5. When Lugia hits the board and isnt attacking right away it is very easy to KO. Also most plasma lists are cutting Lugia and even ones that play it it is a very very very situational card.

      Delete
    6. A 180 hp pokemon is easy to OHKO? Yeah, ok. Well you better have one hell of a setup. And p.s. Luiga may be situational but the chicken (tornadus ex PLF) ain't.

      Delete
  5. I think the second list looks pretty solid, but I'm not sure I like the idea of running 4 colress machine in any plasma deck. It's great to always get one in the opening hand, but it just gets worse the more copies you have as you'll eventually draw and prize some of the plasma energy. I feel 3 is probably the right number (as skyla can fetch it) and it still gives you a good chance to get it early.

    I'm also the type of guy that perfers to play scramble switch to set up Lugia out of nowhere as placing it on the bench can make him thundurus foder. Additionally Scramble switch let's you pull up a thundurus and use the second attack to knock out lugia and tornadus that people will sometimes run.

    Fidning room for keldeo might also help, as it helps in the snorlax match as well.

    ReplyDelete
  6. The title of the article should be:
    How To Be A Twat To Jay Without Directly Calling Him Out.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Esa you have no right to call Jay out like this. There really was no point in this article besides the fact that "my list is better than Jay's. First off Jay Hornung is a much better player than you. Second he has way more accomplishments than you. Winning 10-40 people nationals is not a huge accomplishment. Fact of the matter is you don't have the right to chew out players of a higher status than you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just because someone is a better player doesn't make them a better deck builder. Look at Michael Flores for an example of such a person (yes I know it's another game, but it proves the point).

      And I agree with Esa that Jay's list isn't that great Running both Tornadus and Lugia seems and only one non-ex seems like a way to get yourself some un-needed losses to Steel, sigi, zekroms, and opposing thundurus.

      That being said maybe this deck has a more solid game plan against Darkrai, but I don't know.

      Delete
  8. Time to take a break, Esa?

    ReplyDelete
  9. shit article, shit writer. nothing else to see here.

    ReplyDelete
  10. i
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    him

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you can't post coherently get off the internet.

      Delete
    2. How much you want to bet that all these people defending Esa are from his country and barely speak English. Mad money says I'm right.

      Delete
    3. Can't say anything for or against Esa since I don't know a thing of this whole Jay ordeal, but I just have to chime in to defend the Finnish in our English-speaking skills. On a worldwide level, the Finnish are some of the best non native English speakers. Well, the pronounciation's often a bit off, but at least on the internet. Oh, and calling non native speakers out at being bad at (I'm assuming) your native language is pretty douchy. Respect the fact that we take the time to learn your language, however necessary it is. Sorry for the long OT rant, but I had to do this.

      Delete
    4. There was a much better way to post that message. Here's how: "If you don't like Esa or his articles, then stop reading The Deck Out and insulting him." There, done.

      Delete
  11. this is pathetic

    Making fun of Jays deck?
    Pot keep calling the kettle black.

    just so you know, you are getting ripped apart on heyfonte because of this ;)

    ReplyDelete
  12. This site just went from "Mildly informative" to "Childish"

    #yawn

    Much better, more informed pokemon sites out there. This last childish article was really just the final nail in the coffin.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. While this may make Esa seem a little bit spoiled and salty at the same time, I think Esa is "distracted" about not winning nats and is taking it out through his writing.

      Delete
  13. Hmmm . . . how to post on this thread . . .

    Shall I be horribly sycophantic to either Jay or Esa?

    Or should I just say that both lists are bad, not-so-subtly implying that I know better?

    Decisions, decisions . . .

    ReplyDelete
  14. Why are people being such jerks. He is doing this one his free time. Also, if you do not have anything nice to say, do not say anything at all!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Sorry Esa. I have appreciated your blog for a long time, but it ends here. The content have been pretty terrible the last few months... Better go buy UG so I can read Jay's articles. Cya.

    ReplyDelete
  16. why don't you people shut up and stop hating on him? jay's list was terrible anyway, you can't say otherwise. it WAS a bad way of going about it, but there is no point of spamming his blog for it. besides, you people couldn't make a list any better than jay's.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Seriously, I always learn something useful reading Esa's columns, even if he is critiquing a suboptimal deck there are many "pearls" here. If you don't like the column, go read at another site. He has been and continues to be a great resource for the community and I continue to appreciate his contributions.

    ReplyDelete
  18. esa, just stop the hate. pls

    ReplyDelete
  19. Esa is not "calling jay out, he knows what he's talking about and had every right to do this. Personaly, I think he had a great point and that jay's list didn't have enough focus, despite jay's excelent track record.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Good discussion until the Jay-point was brought up. I wanted to leave it be in the Underground, but as Adam and Jay wanted me to keep the discussion going, I had to reply even though I didn't want to. And as I wrote a wall-of-text analysis, I thought why not to put it in my blog as well since it got a pretty neutral reception in the Underground. I don't really get why people got nuts about it here.

    And in the end, I know that comments in my blog are often ruthless, so I sincerely wanted to see different Plasma lists. However, for some reason people only say that these both lists suck and that they have a better list. So, advice to everyone thinking about what clever to reply here - just post your Plasma list (or at least the Pokémon lines of it, if you think your list is that good, that it can't be shown to the public) and we could have some real contructive discussion.

    I still believe that there are people who can learn something from this and this article was by no means an attack against Jay. And I think even Jay knows it. That's all I care about. I wanted to leave it be for a long time ago, but you guys bring it up over and over again.

    I don't why someone brought up the Jay-issue here, because it had nothing to do with this. I only used his list as a reference to this article ANONYMOUSLY. I would start calling people names if I wanted drama and I know you guys love drama (especially the HeyTrainer guys), but there is no drama here - I just wanted my analysis to be available for everyone since it's as long as my usual articles.


    And yes, I'm taking a 1-2 weeks off my blog the next week! Things often get heated up right before the U.S. Nationals and this time it's no different.

    On a side note: 27/30 Anonymous comments... What would ever happen to my blog's comments, if I took my friend's advice and banned the Anonymous commenting possibility, lol.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. even though you might not have taken direct shots at Jay, you are taking direct shots at his integrity as a deck builder. a quick glance over at the article and you can see how the negative points have stacked up. you might as well have named this article "why this plasma deck sucks and why this other one does not"

      and you constantly do this, I always found this blog helpful because of the Japan articles and in the past the power-player interviews...what I dont appreciate however is when you constantly badger people and there deck choices. Half the time in your articles too (like mentioned in a few of the other comments) you come across as way too arrogant. For example: Last year after the Canadian and U.S national tournament you thought the Entei and KlingKlang deck werent viable choices going into the tournament because...drumroll...they had autolosses to hammertime. In a format with vileplume varients, darkrai mewtwo and mewtwo eels...why would anyone take hammer time seriously? why would anyone take a deck that won a 20 person nationals seriously? (six corners in the finals)..i know why, it was to make you seem like you had any influence on the rest of the world and to yet again question the credibility of two amazing players.

      ill leave it at that, but you need to change something in either your attitude or your approach on how you analyze/critique decks.

      Delete
    2. Oh,I wish every Anonymous commenter would be like you. You brought up some very good points. I wrote most of this article's substance to UG forums and no one seemed to get pissed off about it there, so I thought it wouldn't be provoking in my blog either. However, for some reason people do still take it as a provoking article. I think I brought up some valid points about Plasma lists and I just used the almost-Jay's list as a reference as the Plasma variant I don't like. I know some Pokémon Masters who read the blog knew everything I discussed in this entry and know how to build a Plasma list better than me etc., but I know there are people who this was helpful to as well and that is always my main goal. I didn't edit the tone of the answer from the UG forums, so it might have sounded aggressive if you just put pieces together that you hear from here and there, but for me this article had nothing to do with Jay anymore. I know Jay knows this and that's all that matters for me.

      Also, I know Finnish Nationals are small and useless, but we didn't have 20 Masters, (6 swiss and top8, you do the math) and Hammertime dominated the Germany's Nationals (the biggest Nationals in Europe!) + even Pooka and The Top Cut team said after the U.S. Nationals that they thought Hammertime would be more popular in the U.S. Nationals, which was a factor in their deck choice. So, no I didn't base my Klinklang analysis one my Nationals victory, but the facts happening around the world. And in the very same UG article I said that Klinklang has a chance of Winning the U.S. Nationals if it was able to avoid all the Hammertimes, soo... Well, we could continue this forever, but I want to emphasis that even though my lists may not be the best in the world, I will always make serious analysis based on something else than my personal bias and always look things from different point of views (just like in the Klinklang case). I listed the facts, but also made my own predictions. There is nothing more you can ask for an analysis, IMO.

      Delete
    3. Testing, testing, testing.

      Delete
  21. I think this would be good pokemon line:
    4 Deoxys EX
    3 Kyurem PLF
    2 Thundurus EX
    1 Lugia EX
    1 Keldeo w/ 2 Float Stone, 3 Switch, 1 Scramble Switch

    4 Blend
    4 Prism
    4 Plasma + 3 Colress Machine
    1DCE

    ReplyDelete
  22. I don't want to be rude, but...

    Esa, aren't you a big boy? 6 times national champion of Finland, great perfs at Worlds. You are among the best European players and among the best players of the world.

    You don't need some noobs to make your list or chose one for you don't you... Which good player and potential future rival at worlds will give you a good advice there ?

    I mean either you feel you have something to do at worlds and you work on a deck in private and try to achieve something, or you just give up for this season.

    I understand that you are shocked by bad perfs this season, but c'mon. This is Pokemon TCG. There are other good players rising, because good source of information is now easier to access. Cards are easier to get nowadays and aren't that expensive. It is not only the format or luck, this is the reality; competitive players are more likely to rise now and in the future.

    Things are not static in this world, the worlds in changing every second. What is good can become bad, and what is bad can become good.

    If you want to stay in the top, you will have to fight for it.

    Regarding the OP in Finland the same applies. You have to power to save it or not, it is just a matter of fighting for a cause. There are people fighting every day in Spain, in Poland, in Ireland to have an OP and Premier Events, why are you giving up so easily ? What example are you giving to your ancestors that fought Sweden and USSR ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't want to be rude either but... are you serious?

      Delete
    2. Yes I am serious. It is a lack of respect against all the Finland OP to come crying here. The other players have the right to win.

      It is so childinsh to put in question that he loses because the meta is "luck based" or because maybe he get "less skilled". The others have right to do well and become as good as him no?

      Delete
    3. First of all, It's his blog and he can choose to do whatever he wants with it.Plus, the games are often decided by who goes first because of the possiblity of donking, which is luck based within itself. And he has been to lesser tornaments this year. So that could contribute to the rust. And the last part well duh.. I think everyone wants to win. Which is the reason for competition, but the best are going to want to remain the best, he's probaly upset because he want's to win so much that even top four is a bit upsetting,considering the fact that he is a 6 TIME NATIONAL CHAMPION!

      Delete
    4. I think we should hear this from Esa himself before anybody makes any type of conclusions such as that.

      Delete
    5. You make a very valid point, just probaly how i would respond if I was in that position. But we should probaly just stay on the original topic of Plasma decks and not get in these squabbles, it's a blog about the pokemon tcg and deckbuilding after all, not a blog about insulting others and getting mad and posting rants.

      Delete
  23. I just feel ashamed of how people here are so angry and ungrateful. I'm not being an apple polisher but Esa tries so hard to help everyone with his articles and people just keep flaming instead of helping with more information and knowledge.

    ReplyDelete
  24. I am not posting anonomously.

    I really have nothing to say either way on this article (though I think 3 kyurem is a must in plasma and I actually like some of the 4 kyurem / 4 deoxys / 2 keldeo lists as they run non special energies and Cobalion EX really gives plasma fits)

    But I just figured someone should atleast have the guts to post with thier name instead of just posting anonomously and trolling the forum.

    While I dont think either of those lists are super good, I am not going to bash either one of them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The option of being able to post anonomously is so that people's identities are witheld from the public and they can not be pressecuted for sharing their thoughts and opinions.

      No matter how rude or non-related the post may be (unless a 10-year-old shouldn't say it), no one should go through the hell of posting one comment and then feeling like crap because everyone is harrasing him or her for doing so.

      There are exceptions when certain people abuse the anonomous use of posting and spam whatever they want, but if that's all they can think of doing in their spare time then I would rather pitty than shame them.

      All in all, just because you "at least* have the guts to post (your) name instead of just posting anonomously and trolling the form" doesn't mean everyone else should or will.

      I support my statement by doing so.

      Delete
    2. Yet everyone seems to do exactly what you stated to the OP. If you are going to take shots at someone atleast be man (or woman) enough to back up what you say by posting who you are. Hiding behind an anonymous tag and taking shots at someone is childish. But hey its the interwebs, if you want to be childish you have the right to I assume.

      Delete
  25. I'm not going to comment on the Jay vs Esa issue, because quite frankly, it is none of my business to talk about it, and if what Esa says is true(I personally choose to believe him), Jay doesn't even care about this, so I don't see why everyone needs to rush and white knight him. I'm also with Rich McCarron on that there needs to be at least a few people posting with their actual name.

    Instead, I'll focus on the actual topic.

    I personally am not sure Lugia EX and Snorlax really even deserve a place in Plasma, from my limited experience. The deck is built around speed, and those 2 are anything but that. The Scramble Switch play is seriously overhyped(not commenting on the card itself, just the Skyla -> Scramble all Energy to Lugia/Snorlax -> win), because there is a very good chance you'll Juniper it away sometime in the middle of the game. I'm not denying that they can win matches, but they really aren't as good as they're being hyped to hell to, atleast from what I can see. This kind of clutch card is a catch-22, because running 1 means you likely won't have it when it is needed, and running more is junk when you will only play one.

    Instead, I think Plasma should be focusing on its speedy attacks. You have space since you're cutting out the DCEs etc., so you can just start using Team Plasma Badges and Cobalion EX for example(this is off the top of my head), or even go with Absol. I'm personally not a fan of Landorus, but I'll reserve comment on it because I don't know enough about it.

    Esa, if you're reading this comment, and legitimately want some advice/suggestions, cut the fat with the showy attackers, and focus on what Plasma is all about: hitting quickly. The deck's whole point is its cheap attacks in combination with Colress Machine; don't artificially slow it down with junk like Lugia EX and Snorlax which don't accomplish anything most of the time. The "one big hit" is seriously overrated, when you can generate the same damage with your consistent chip damage, Deoxys EX, Blizzard Burn and Lasers.

    This is all entirely my opinion, so feel free to disagree.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. totally agree but it probably depends on the player. I also tried Lugia EX in my plasma deck but after some games i decided not to use it anymore because it made my deck worse in terms of consistency.

      Delete
    2. The problem with Lugia is that people don't know how to use it.
      The Scramble Switch idea used in Japan worked better because they ran fewer Prof. Juniper, so it was a lot more likely that you had Lugia/Snorlax + Scramble available for a late game sweep. When the deck came over here, people were just copying lists and testing from there, which just didn't work because we focus more on Juniper (and because the strategy isn't that good in the first place unless no one expects it).

      The people who used Lugia in the PLS format know better. Lugia is bad as a tech. It's good as a main attacker. A consistent list with 2-3 Lugia can take games very quickly.
      Imagine a turn where you bench 2 Lugia, attach any energy to one and Raiden Knuckle to attach any Energy to the other. Suddenly, no matter what the opponent does, you threaten a 3-prize play with DCE + Colress Machine. And if they don't kill the Lugia after that, Plasma Energy or Colress Machine takes 3 more prizes unless it's T2 (assuming you did something beforehand, so there is some damage on some EX). Even if you can't just take the next prizes, you can always switch into Thundurus to once again set up both Lugias, this time without even the need for Colress Machine.
      And it's fragility is irrelevant when you have 2 of them. Thanks to Thundurus and Colress Machine, Plasma Decks can set a Lugia up in 1-2 turns while at the same time readying a second one to be set up. It's the same as with Kyurem. Lugia is good for the same reasons Kyurem's Blizzard burn is. It can be set up in 2 turns and will usually net you one more prize than the opponent gets for knocking out your attacker.

      Delete
  26. I'd like to note that the only reason i'm posting anonymously is that i'm using the mobile version of the site, and i can't find the button to put a name with the comment. Sorry.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You shouldn't be sorry. There is nothing wrong with posting anonymously.

      Delete
    2. It's super convenient.

      Delete
  27. 4 Deoxys-EX
    2 Thundurus-EX
    2 Kyurem PLF
    2 Lugia-EX
    1 Landorus BW79
    1 Keldeo-EX

    4 Catcher
    4 Colress Machine
    4 HTL
    2 Ultra Ball
    1 Team Plasma Ball
    2 Switch
    2 Float Stone
    1 Scramble Switch
    4 Juniper
    4 N
    2 Colress
    2 Skyla
    1 Bianca
    2 VCG

    4 Prism
    4 Plasma
    3 WLFM
    2 DCE

    That's my list with heavy Lugia. I haven't tested it much yet. Here's my list without, which has been working fine for me:

    4 Deoxys-EX
    2 Thundurus-EX
    2 Kyurem PLF
    1 Landorus BW79
    1 Keldeo-EX

    4 HTL
    4 Catcher
    4 Colress Machine
    2 Ultra Ball
    1 Plasma Ball
    2 Switch
    2 Float Stone
    1 Max Potion
    1 Revive
    1 Computer Search or Scramble Switch
    4 Juniper
    4 N
    2 Skyla
    2 Colress
    2 Bianca
    2 VCG

    4 Prism
    4 WLFM
    4 Plasma

    I like revive in the list a lot. It makes the 1 Landorus better against Darkrai because you can get it back, and can get you the third Kyurem if you need it. Not running Lugia clears up a lot of space, which is very nice, but heavy Lugia is supposed to be pretty good. If Lugia isn't worth it, then I'll stick with the second list.


    I would support blocking Anonymous comments on this blog. People are rotten.

    I like the work you do, Esa, keeping up a blog on your own time. It is good to see a successful player doing this, and I wish other good players did the same. I don't agree with how you nerf most of your lists you post on here (as you said on HT), as it can make people think badly of you, and can misguide less experienced players looking for advice, but I'm sure you know best.

    As for this article, I read the discussion in UG, and it looks like the issue was resolved. It's a shame Anonymous commenters are giving you trouble.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I m gratefull you finally decided to post somthing here,even if is just this compairison decklist article.
    Anyway I dont run plasma myself, but the times I face it and it runs Keldeo is a huge pain in the neck, and snorlax always gives me a hard time as well cause I can t use my own keldeo to run out of the special conditions inflicted by laser.
    Another thing PLEASE POST ROGUE DECK ANALYSIS or DECK IDEAS. I understand plasma is good but there are waaaays to counter its main strategy with decks that arent even mentioned on the internet.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Hey Esa, what are your thoughts on the Plasma Landorus?

    ReplyDelete
  30. lol. just read the comments haha the point is esa is strong lol and my plasma line is
    4Deoxes
    1Thundures
    3Kyurem and an Absol

    ReplyDelete
  31. you need 3 thundurusss

    ReplyDelete
  32. good one !!
    i appreciates the choice of words being used in this post and would like to add my experience being a user of such a PRODUCT. I too bought a plasma
    six months ago and its been awesome. It has a very strong bass system and very clear picture quality.

    ReplyDelete

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